Just Words...Empty Words...or True Belief?
IS IT JUST WORDS, AND STERILE THEOLOGY....OR, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE?
(Here's an illustration I will be sharing in tomorrow's sermon)
"On July 4, 1854, Charlie Peace, a well-known criminal in London, was hung. The Anglican Church, which had a ceremony for everything, even had a ceremony for hanging people. So, when Charlie Peace was marched to the gallows, a priest read these words: 'Those who die without Christ experience hell, which is the pain of forever dying without the release which death itself can bring.' "
When these chilling words were read, Charlie Peace stopped in his tracks, turned to the priest, and shouted in his face, "Do you believe that? Do you believe that?"
The priest, taken aback by this verbal assault, stammered for a moment then said, "Well...I...suppose I do."
"Well, I don't," said Peace. "But if I did, I'd get down on my hands and knees and crawl all over Great Britain, even if it were paved with pieces of broken glass, if I could rescue one person from what you just told me."
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My Comments: As a preacher, I do not address the subject of Hell very often. Love, forgiveness, purpose, etc.- these seem much more pleasant. But, sometimes I think maybe this subject should be presented more often. With a broken heart, for sure.
I'd be interested in your honest feedback, whether you are a believer or not.
07.09.05 (6:23 pm) [
edit]
posted by:
jeremiah2911 (
reply)
post date:
07.09.05 (11:19 pm)
Yes I surely agree with you.It is the thought of som many people not knowing Jesus Christ as their Lord and passing away which hurts.Not only us but to Our God our Father.Its absolutely important to tell everyone about Jesus and what He did for us in all meekness and in Love. For we are to sow the seed.
Neither he who plants nor he who waters give growth but God.
So we as Christians need to keep sowing the seed of the gospel of Christ and let the Holy spirit do its work.
For one sows and another reaps.
Keep sowing keep praying!!! I will too.
God bless you
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
07.10.05 (2:45 am)
hmmm... I like the sentiments, but the extremes are to stark and take away from the message.. Yesterday, I was with a friend of mine and she wanted to go to lunch. I'd already had something to eat but I did feeel like sitting in a booth and relaxing in some a.c. for a few minutes. I asked her where she wanted to go. She said "How about Applebees?" I said, that was okay, but I asked her to suggest somewhere else. She then suggested MacDonalds, which missed my mind-set at the other end of the spectrum. (I was sort of hot and sweaty and didn't think I was dressed well enough even for a casual joint like Applebees, but the thought of MacDonalds didn't sound relaxing in the least...) It also struck me as funny that her first two choices were so far apart on the restaurant chain spectrum, which, of course, me being an idiot, I mentioned... But we settled at a local diner, which seemed perfect for our purposes.
Jeez... what a long way to go to get here. Sorry. My point is, that the choice isn't as narrow as you present it. At least, not to me.
There's a whole range of middle ground that, if ignored, does disservice to all, especially Jesus, and his most important messages - which had nothing to do with the quasai voodoo of the "salvation" premise, (which to my mind has been totally misunderstood, and thus misrepresented to the benefit of too many charlatans, and the detriment of too many people looking for answers to unanswerable questions.)
Love God, Love each other, and your enemies... If we're going to distill and simplify, why not start (and end) there?
posted by:
Fairmoon (
reply)
post date:
07.10.05 (5:44 am)
surrogate and I agree on a lot of things, even if he can get longwinded sometimes *cheeky grin* and i agree with him here too.
I also tend to agree with jeremiah that telling people about Jesus can be a good thing. It's the method that gets imployed that often bothers me.
When people talk about how good, clean and pure they feel within in the arms of Jesus, it's comforting, relaxing-- inspiring.
But when people rant about hell and damnation and how terrible to you are for not believeing, that ticks me off. Why do people think that works?
Anyways, my views of hell are probably different from you and I prefer to talk to people about the positive, how they can reach light and spirit, not brimestone and everlasting sorrow.
just my two cents,
FM
posted by:
preceptlady (
reply)
post date:
07.10.05 (9:38 am)
PastorDave:
I did a word search on "hell" and from the New American Standard the word appears in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 10:28, Matthew 18:9, Matthew 23:15, Mark 9:43, Luke 12:5, James 3:6, and 2 Peter 2:4.
In every place except 2 Peter 2:4 the meaning of the word hell [geenna /gheh·en·nah/] is as follows: Hell is the place of the future punishment call “Gehenna” or “Gehenna of fire”.
Strong, J. (1996).
In 2 Peter 2:4 From Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades) translates as “cast down to hell” hell means the name of the subterranean region, doleful and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead, where they suffer punishment for their evil deeds; it answers to Gehenna of the Jews.
Strong, J. (1996).
Jesus' ministry was about Life and Death...He taught more than once about what would cause your whole body to go into hell. Shouldn't we love other's enough as much as He did an tell them the same thing He did and let them know there is such a place or should we do as most churchs in America are doing today and never mention it? He mentioned it. If we are to preach the gospel to all the nations..isn't that part of the gospel?
Just a thought
posted by:
Longshot (
reply)
post date:
07.16.05 (5:48 am)
I think there's room for both approaches. I know a lot of folks who got the "hell" scared out of them and began to love God and neighbor.
It wouldn't work for FM and me though. I prefer your approach Dave!
posted by:
CBar (
reply)
post date:
07.18.05 (6:39 am)
Reply to: surrogate
You are right, we are to love God, love each other & love our enemies but I believe the choice is narrow. Jesus said, I am the Way, the Truth & the Light, NOONE comes to the Father (God) but through me. The gate to hell is wide -- Accepting Jesus as your Savior is the only way.
posted by:
CBar (
reply)
post date:
07.18.05 (6:46 am)
I think that there is a fine line there. When you preach on Hell to often then it can be too much BUT preaching on God's love only can easily make people see God only as loving. Which He is but He also will punish those for NOT accepting Him! I accepted Christ after realizing that without him I would die & go to hell. I am so happy that I was "scared into Heaven" than being just "loved into hell"!
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
07.18.05 (8:45 am)
Reply to: CBar
You poor person. The little branches are very pretty, but it's the tree that matters, and the correct translation is "Mine is the way"... not 'I am the way', but then all the fear mongers would lose their flocks. Jesus was a lot more special than you people make him by turning him into some magic show.... But then, that's just my opinion, albeit, a correct one...lol
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
07.18.05 (8:55 am)
Reply to: preceptlady
Here's the problem.
Remember when we had to read novels in high school? And then, the teachers who weren't all that clever would parse them to death until the joy was sapped by the overexamination? picking and choosing words or verses, or even chapters, and making judgements or decisions based on those tiny slivers is, well goofy. Jesus is the one who said that the most imprtant thing in the world was to love... and that's HIS priority. Therefore, I can easily see him talking about hell considering it wasn't a foriegn concept to those who lkived at the time, but doind so to make a point in the same way he used parables to illustrate ponts. I do not believe that a god who would go to all the trouble to create this world would be quite as harsh a judge as to condemn everyone who doesn't get with that particular program to a fiery eternity.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
07.18.05 (8:57 am)
Reply to: preceptlady
(sorry about all the typos... I forgot to read before I hit submit...)
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
07.18.05 (3:45 pm)
Reply to: CBar
how come you born again typees always put a "but" in what Jesus said was the most important thing?
posted by:
Cbar (
reply)
post date:
07.19.05 (8:25 am)
Reply to: surrogate
I will not argue with you. You have your belief & I have mine. I believe mine is correct & I know you believe yours is.. The question I ask then is IF you are correct & I still Love God, friends & enemies, like you say is the way, & believe in Jesus as my Savior then it hurts me none.. BUT if my beliefs are correct & Jesus is the ONLY way, then what happens if you don't believe in Him? You spend an eternity in hell..
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
07.19.05 (12:45 pm)
Reply to: Cbar
Whatever... Hell - schmell
