posted by:
sweetsue (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (6:02 am)
I know the feeling..I really dislike going too..and the wait and the noises..they should pay us for enduring all the stress of waiting and going through it all.
Now..how do I feel about church..well when I am in church..I feel a sense of security,I feel at peace and I love our preacher..he is awesome.As for God..I don't always understand what he expects of me,or my purpose,but he knows best and I am working on that with the help of reading and trying to just be the best I can while here on earth...I like your post Pastor Dave..Wish I could put my thoughts into writing the same as you and surrogate do..Have a great day!
posted by:
mblog (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (7:00 am)
These days, you can actually get pain killers at the dentist's office. They even have nitrous oxide.
Of course, all of that is for total wimps. Or people who have anxiety for perfectly legitimate reasons. There's no reason why anybody should need pain killers just to have a tooth drilled. It's mind over matter.
Pain is the body's way of telling you that something is wrong. But if you know the reason for the pain, and that your body need not act upon it, then there is no reason to let it get to you.
I don't know what this has to do with church, preachers and God, but I suppose I can address that too.
I noticed that you said church with a small "c" so I won't go into how I feel about The Church. Perhaps you are asking about my views on architecture. I'm not really sure. If you want my views on Christian houses of worship in general, I think they serve a valuable role in the lives of many Christians and are an important part of the community. It's that sense of community that's the important part, and The Church is the congregation more than anything else.
Preachers? Again, that depends what you mean. If you mean a person who preaches the Gospel, and if by Gospel, you mean the traditional Christian teachings, then I suppose I generally view preachers as respectable members of the community who serve a valuable role. Since Christianity is a diverse umbrella, I can't say that I view all preachers in equal light. I have no problem with the ones who are open minded and recognize the diversity of religious views, and accept that others have differing views. And I don't expect them to share my views. But I don't think that those who think that most of the world is going to hell for not seeing things their way really understand God.
God? That's a tougher one. Asking how I feel about God is like asking how I feel about anything in existence. It's such an encompassing question that I don't know where to begin.
Now if I have to put all these ideas together, I'd say that dental work is a necessary part of life, and God gave you ways of dealing with things. Sometimes, life gives you a challenge, and sometimes it's mind over matter. God lets you experience pain for a reason. It's a necessary part of life. So is dealing with pain and accepting that it's sometimes necessary.
Childbirth is a good example, because the greater good that comes out of it puts things in perspective. I suppose that there are some women whose reason to avoid pregnancy will be to avoid the pain of childbirth, but I don't expect that to be very many.
As for dental care, the greater good comes from treating your body with respect in the first place. It comes from taking care of yourself and eating right. It comes from avoiding those things that cause dental problems in the first place because self indulgence at the price of your life is never worth it. Dental work might not seem like a life or death issue, but eating right certainly is. Most tooth decay is caused by diet, and improper care. The same diet that causes tooth decay can also cause much worse problems, and failing to care for your body is showing a lack of appreciation for God's gift.
I never thought about it in those terms before, but is a preacher with a pot belly truly showing appreciation for what God gave him?
I'd say that anybody who blames the dentist for those things that he could have avoided is not acknowledging his own shortcomings.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (7:22 am)
Reply to: DeathByGlitter
Spiritual matters sure can be confusing.
Never any major dental work? That is great; you are incredibly blessed. I fear dentists; my heart starts pounding as I approach his/her office. Irrational?
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (7:27 am)
Reply to: mblog
Pretty good, thoughtful response, probably of higher quality than the subject matter!
I do think many view a trip to church or a conversation with a pastor with the same fear that I dread a trip to the dentist. My fear is not warranted. The dentist and the dental procedures are clearly for my well-being. Same with church and God.
I am asking others to examine why they may have a negative attitude toward spiritual matters. Maybe a conscious and concerted effort needs to be made to look at matters from a different perspective?
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (7:30 am)
Reply to: sweetsue
Obviously you do not equate a trip to church with a trip to the dentist. Good. Of course, serving God can sometimes bring along an unpleasant experience. Like the cross.
You are very kind with your compliment. You have a different and I think very effective way of expressing yourself, and you sure promote your blog well. And Surrogate seems a good guy and a fine writer; if I could only get him to swing more toward the conservative spectrum. Oh well.
posted by:
userfriendly (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (7:41 am)
i wish i could make a trip to the dentist. i havent had dental insurance for years, actually .. about 2 weeks after i lost it, i broke the corner of a tooth off .. i cant afford to go have it fixed, i have a lot of other stuff to worry about. i try my best to keep my teeth clean hoping that when i can finally go see a dentist again - things wont be so bad. i think it's been roughly 4 years since my last visit.
i've heard of a lot of other activities being like "having teeth pulled" .. but never church (except for younger folks who don't want to be there but don't have a choice)
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (7:55 am)
Reply to: userfriendly
You need to get on to see a dentist. It is a necessary pain of life. I have a family of 5, and we do not have dental insurance. We are subscribed to a dental discount plan, and you can find them on the internet. Some are good and some are bad. We pay $7.95 per month. They give us a list of local dentists who go along with their discounted prices. So, we go to a local dentist, and pay prices that are about 40% less than the stated prices. So twice yearly we all get checkups, and whatever else is needed.
While I do not have to use this service, our local association of churches offer a free dental clinic for needful persons. Dentists and assistants volunteer their time, and these guys offer a great help to low-income persons. I would not feel bad about using their services, if needed.
As a church worker, I know of many persons who are nice guys, but avoid church like it was a trip to the dentist. It appears you are not such a person, and that is great.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (8:34 am)
I have to go next week. -Thanks a lot. (I try so hard to keep it out of mind until the day of my appointment...lol)
Great post!
posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (9:24 am)
Reply to: mblog
Well said. Perhaps a bit strong compared to the light-hearted nature of PD's post. I certainly agree with many of the sentiments you've expressed.
You said:
And I don't expect them to share my views.
My question:
What are YOUR views?
posted by:
mblog (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (10:35 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
My views are best expressed a bit at a time.
When I say I don't expect people to share my views, I'm not saying that I don't want people to share them. I'm merely saying that they don't have to share them.
Had God revealed a certain truth to all peoples of the world at once, then one could argue that we should all have the same practices. But if your world view is different from mine, I can't say it makes you wrong. If you do your best to conduct yourself in a righteous way, that's all I can expect.
I know that's an oversimplification, but it was a general question.
posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (3:09 pm)
Reply to: mblog
so, am i correct in making the assumption that you would suggest that god has revealed ultimate truth to us in different ways in different cultures at different times?
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (3:25 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
I'll interject a comment. Sure, God reveals truth to varying cultures in different manners. I believe in the progressive revelation of Go. But, His ultimate Truth is unchanging. Jesus Christ. I understand the message of Hebrews & the gospel of John to be exactly this.
posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
11.07.05 (4:27 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
How did I know you'd say that? :-) Yes, exclusive doctrines of superior revelation -- nearly always "final revelation" -- are irrestible to the human minds memetic appetite. Our minds are very prone to requiring certainty to escape the anxiety of not-knowing and not-controlling.
The irony, for someone who believes as I do that Yeshua himself attempted to communicate that God was eternally a mystery, is that man took the figure of an ascetic mystic and turned his iconic image into the object of as dogmatic a theology as the world has ever seen. whatever "truth" yeshua actually taught has been, in my humble opinion, long lost in a sea of religionist revisionism.
(i bet you knew i'd say that, too! lol!)
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.08.05 (8:43 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
If you truly believe this, then why do you regularly attend worship in a Christian church? Those folks are worshiping Jesus. Surely you would consider such to either be foolish delusion or, worse, idolatry. If I did not believe Jesus to be God and worthy of my worship, then I would stay far from a true Christian church.
posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
11.08.05 (9:30 am)
Reply to: PastorDave
First, I love church. I love the symbology. I love the wisdom inherent in developing a "Christ consciousness" of pure love and non-violence. I love the church community and I value coming together as a community in the spirit of common committment to goodness. Plus, it makes my Mom happy!
Also, from my perspective, it is all mythology. I'd be just as comfortable in a synagoge, mosque or scientology seminar.
posted by:
newbie (
reply)
post date:
11.08.05 (12:08 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
But those others are not there for the "Christ consciousness"; they are there to bow their knees to their god, who is Jesus Christ. Do you not look around and think, "These people are deluded. They are offending the true God, or they are deceived and channeling their lives in the wrong direction. Wake up, people. Do something constructive, instead of worshiping a dead god."? I would never be comfortable in a Hindu ceremony or a Mosque, other than maybe a visit out of curiosity or out of invitation from a friend. Of course, I'll never be allowed into a Mosque!
Your mom likes it? Now, that is an excellent reason. Not the best, of course. I tell alot of men, and teens, from time to time that I recognize and appreciate that they attend church basically out of respect for the woman in their lives. I believe Jesus would smile at that, because He loved His mama, too.
Kurt, you're a smart guy and spiritually more sensitive than I in many ways. I won't keep pestering you about this. I just find it to be an interesting inconsistency. And I wonder if maybe you are more in tune with Jesus Christ than your words indicate. That's what I hinted with your sister. By the way, she really needs to get into this blogging.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.08.05 (12:13 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
The last post was from me. Sorry about the "newbie" label.
posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
11.08.05 (12:50 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
your last reply was as "newbie" but i knew it was you. i'll do my best off-the-cuff at speaking to the "inconsistency" issue you raise. i understand how you would have that thought from your perspective. i'll try to explain how it is a non-issue from my perspective.
first, i don't think anyone has a clue about the answers to ultimate questions (who is god? what is god? what happens when we die? who goes to heaven? who goes to hell? is there a satan? is jesus, muhammed, krishna, buddha, zoroaster, et al the "true" god or is the answer somewhere else, like scientology?) i think we have mythologies which we've created to alleviate our incessant concern about the meaning of life, death and our mortality. christianity remains a dominant system of belief about such matters. islam, however, will soon be the dominant major religion -- within the next 50 years.
i believe some religions are more positive and helpful to mankind than other religions. i believe christianity is more nurturing to the happiness of humans than is islam, in general. but, i believe that buddhism is superior to christianity in this regard.
so, to answer a direct question of you asked -- yes, i do believe that many religious people, including the folks i attend church with, are "deluded" in their belief in the literalism of their professed beliefs. given the chance, i would suggest to them directly and with all due respect. having said that, i also realize my own limitations, bias, prejudice and programming is always at work in my mind the same way it is in their minds. in short, we are all deluded to one degree or another. but, we also are able to use *reason* to think a few things through and come up with some basics about how to live together.
thou shalt not kill.
thou shalt not steal.
thou shalt not bear false witness.
these are a pretty good place to start. surely, you don't think the world already practiced this wisdom long before the story of moses and the stone tablets. egyptian society embraced these same shared values for thousands of years before moses. for some reason, humankind has needed the validation of a deity for what reason suggests is true without the voice of the god piercing the heavens. all major religions embrace these central tenets which reason tells we must embrace in order to live together in peace and prosperity. when we abandon them, whether we are jew, christian or muslim -- we don't do very well. we don't have peace. we certainly don't prosper. just imagine what kind of economic growth and prosperity the world could experience sans the disruption and cost of war and the war machine in all developed countries!!
i digress, as usual.
to get to the point, i'm able to enjoy my local baptist and methodist experience because they represent the path i travelled to get where i am. jesus was my door to thinking deeply and courageously. the verse "know the truth and the truth will set you free" has become my life's mantra. you see, i was freed from the fear of getting it wrong by that verse. i know my heart is true. i know that i seek the truth with all my heart, mind and soul --including when my heart, mind and soul tell me that the truth is that no one knows "the truth" about these things. it is a mystery, i believe. that is my truth. i will trust that truth. god, it is said in all major religions, IS truth. if i will, in fact, have to sit in the judgement seat before the creator of all things, i will do exactly what i would do if i were sitting in the judgement seat at the local court house -- i would tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. if this isn't enough, then there really isn't much i can do about about that since i refuse, for any reason, to lie about a matter of such importance.
if i condemned, i will be condemned by a god that i've looked in the eye and told the truth.
i can't imagine a god that condemns anyone for telling the truth. that is my comfort in this world, as it was for yeshua, according to the yeshua myth. further, i believe yeshua attempted to teach something very similar to what i've laid out here in the comment. (no, i'm not comparing me to yeshua for all you readers who are already convinced i have a messiah complex. i do -- lol -- but i don't think i'm anything like yeshua bin joseph -- not by the longest of shots. i'm more like paul -- "the chief among sinners".)
this stance costs me much daily. i wish i could simply believe as i was taught to believe all my life. i can't because i can't reconcile what i believe is the truth with those teachings. so, i have to go with the truth versus obediently believing what i'm *suppposed* to believe. it is a difficult path.
oh, and you can pester me about this all you want. i don't mind at all. its good for me to think it through again.
also, since i don't believe whatever god might be could possibly be offended by our beliefs about god -- no, i don't look around and think anything like that -- i think "here are people striving for the truth, like i am. here are people thirsting for meaning and relevance, like i am. here are people in need of caring fellowship, like i am. here are people who fear what they can't understand, like i do. here are people who embrace something larger than themselves, like i am. i think here people who are just like i am.
if i could have every living human being believe one thing, it would be to believe each person they ever meet is someone who is "JUST LIKE I AM!"
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.08.05 (3:16 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
It is a matter of authority. Who will be in charge of your life? You seem to be unwilling to give up that control, to surrender to the authority of a higher being. The ultimate determinant seems to be what Kurt thinks, how Kurt feels. The "leap of faith" into the Lordship of Jesus Christ does not require that you figure it all out, that you understand it all. You love Him and you trust Him.. And you worship Him.
posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
11.08.05 (4:46 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
PD, you are clearly a sensible, reasonable and honest person. But, do you not see why it becomes so frustrating discussing religious matters with those who hold to exclusive truths about God, including Christians? The implication and explication is always the same -- if I reject YOUR version of God then there MUST be something inherently WRONG with MY character. We can't just see things about God differently -- you have to be RIGHT and I have to WRONG. I know that you are a tolerant person. Your BELIEFS, however, are unavoidably intolerant and this inherent intolerance bleeds over into your thinking quite pervasively -- as your most previous comments demonstrate.
Ok, let's go your direction for a second...
Let's say that I believe Christ is the True God, as you are suggesting. A belief, as you know, that 99% of everyone I know and love holds true as well.
Now, to what "AUTHORITY" am I to submit and how do I, in specific practice, submit myself to this authority? How does this authority speak to me in a way that I know what this authority wants me to do? How do I know that I am getting the right message from this authority rather than a false message? Does this message come only from the Bible? From prayer? From men and women who claim to be able to speak for God? From signs? From miracles? From all these places?
Do you see where I'm going with this line of reasoning?
You state your position as if there was a single belief about God that was overwhelming obvious that all mankind has a simple choice to make -- the choice between faith or unfaith -- which you define as a choice between Jesus or nothing at all.
The fact is that the so many of the factions within Christianity believe so differently about Jesus and God that when you really do the analysis, many, if not most Christians believe that only those Christians who believe within some vein of Christianity are actually "saved" and that the others worship a false God. This is, in my humble opinion, the dirty little secret about religion in general and about Christianity specifically that no one wants to be honest about -- that the actual doctrines of the various Christian faiths often mutually exclude each other from salvation. This is true many faiths but because of the nature of Christian doctrines of salvation, it is more ironic in the Christian faith than in the other major religions.
I understand the concept of a "narrow gate" very well, but, the reality of how narrow this gate really is by a Christian sectarian definition tells a very different story than we really want to hear on Sunday mornings in our sectarian pulpits.
For example, here is the basics of one very conservative sect of which I'm pretty well versed:
1 - We are the true historical Church of Christ.
2 - All other churches adhere to heritical doctrines are therefore "false" churches. Those who attend these "false" churches are themselves "heretics" and as such, can not possibly be covered by Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Ergo, they are off to eternal damnation unless they finally see their deception and come to the true God and his true Church.
3 - It goes without saying that Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Catholics (who believe something pretty close to the above doctrine but with slightly different mechanics), Zoroastrians, Agnostics, Gnostics, Universalists, Scientologist, and Proctologists (oops, got carried away) are all going to hell in a handbasket.
For the sake of argument, the Bible says that God is Truth, ergo Jesus is Truth. So, if I suggest, which I do, that I believe in Truth -- why isn't that the same as saying that I believe in Christ? Jesus had certainly never heard the name "Jesus" or "Christ" in his lifetime so what exactly is the meaning of those consonants and vowels pronounced in that certain way. Why isn't Truth an even more accurate descriptions since it is a universal concept understood exactly the same way in all cultures throughout history? If God himself equates himself with the concept of Truth, then why can't I make that same distinction with or without the mixed baggage of organized religion, very flawed scriptures, acutely problematic issues with how Jesus' message was recorded and modern historical scholarship with clearly shows the 1st century church and the Apostle Paul had a very different agenda than Jesus had when he was alive and actively teaching his disciples?
Your description of a "leap of faith" in this context becomes essentially a meaningless bromide. Unless you describe to me what the "Lordship of Jesus Christ" actually means, then how is it to be distinguished from the many sects and views of what this "Lordship" implies?
I don't need to figure it "all out" in any way, shape form or fashion. In fact, I embrace the mystery of it all and cling to truth. If it is true that you KNOW that Jesus is the ONLY answer, then you are believing the truth according to how you really do see this in your bones. I am doing the same thing -- I DON'T *KNOW* that Jesus is the ONLY answer or even if Jesus is an ANSWER at all. So, in absence of an explanation I can honestly say I *KNOW* is correct -- I simply hold to the most honest statement I know how to make -- that I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER. I am be truthful. I gladly admit my wrong and failing in my life. I gladly ask for forgiveness from whatever might be God. I humbly seek to better my life and to correct my mistakes to the best of my ability. I love my family and my friends deeply. I also don't fear death and I don't fear what the finding out what the ulitimate answers really are. I do fear the unkown aspects of death, same as everyone else. I don't fear meeting God. I actually desire to meet God very much, if something like our concepts of God really does exist.
What other way can it be seen other than this is the way "Kurt sees things". I am, after all Kurt, right?
:-)
Sorry... I just ran out of time to get this all pulled together -- I'll try to come back to it later.
posted by:
bronwynj (
reply)
post date:
11.08.05 (10:11 pm)
Kurt, I understand & appreciate your post of Tuesday 11.08.05 [9:46 pm]
posted by:
newbie (
reply)
post date:
11.09.05 (1:46 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
You appear to seek, and appreciate, a simple life. Can't your faith be simple (not your god, of course)?
posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
11.09.05 (3:41 am)
Reply to: newbie
Well, what I'm suggesting here is that my faith, if you can call it "faith", is, in fact, profoundly simple!
I believe in Truth. I seek the Truth. I refuse to say I KNOW something that I DON'T KNOW. I also truthfully admit that I DON'T KNOW. I hope and believe for everything we all hope and believe for in life and beyond. I accept that it is a mystery and embrace that mystery. I have no control over whether God exists or not. I have no control over whether God will accept me or not. If God exists, I will humbly ask God to accept me. This is the best I can do as I currently see things. In my mind, this is very simple.
:-)
posted by:
mblog (
reply)
post date:
11.09.05 (8:49 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
I don't think I would say that. Different things have been revealed to different people at different times. If there were an "ultimate" truth that had been revealed, then somebody would have all the answers. I don't think there can be an ultimate truth without an ultimate understanding.
However, there is a lot of convergence. If somebody says you should love your neighbor because Jesus said so, it's hard to argue that it's a bad idea or that Jesus didn't say so. If somebody else points out what Leviticus says, or what Rabbi Hillel said before Jesus came along, then what does it do to the message? There will be some who will argue that it could not have been Jesus' idea since others said it first. But that misses the point. If Jesus was preaching something that was consistent with contemporary Jewish teachings, that should not have been surprising, but expected. If both claim that the message is from God, then there's no real conflict or contradiction. And if you accept Jesus as your Lord, then the idea that it predates Jesus but still comes from God makes no sense either. It's essentially all from God in that case, and it's merely being revealed to more people.
If I point to teachings of Confucius or Buddha or Herodotus, it would still not lessen the meaning of the teaching, but strengthen it.
If you believe that God is responsible for everything, then God is responsible for those teachings in other cultures too.
Likewise, values such as honoring parents, not murdering or stealing, are fairly universal. Even cannibals understand it, believe it or not.
Of course there are those who don't believe in God who accept the same notions about these teachings. But if you do believe in God, then it's still reasonable to say that God is responsible for those views. And if you don't, you can say it's part of human nature.
But what is nature? Suppose an atheist told me that nature is responsible for everything, and I said I don't believe in nature. I could say that there's no proof that nature exists just because you attribute things to nature, since you can't show me nature. You can point to a tree or a waterfall and say that these are all examples of nature's work and nature is all around us. I could say that they are all examples of God's work and God is all around us. I could further point out that I've seen and heard ideas about nature and they conflict each other. I've heard that nature is a mother. I've seen her picture in books and on TV commercials. Yet others deny her physical existence as a being. If the ideas of nature are so contradictory, they cannot be true. The atheist might point out that some of the views are metaphorical, and even if people misunderstand nature, it's a sign that people are misinformed, not that nature does not exist. The parallel argument is obvious.
If I follow this argument to its logical conclusion, I could say that nature is just the atheist's word for God and the works of God. But since those who believe in God use the word too, and see nature as God's creation, the atheist is just using different words to describe God's creation. So ultimately, the most diametrically opposed justification for a teaching may be a lot closer to another justification than people realize.
We live in a world with truths. We also live in a world with myths and legends. We have people with an anthropomorphic view of God, and those with an entirely spiritual view of God. But if all of these ultimately lead to a convergence of ideas, then those can be seen as truths.
There are also widely held religious notions that do not cross all societies. If one group has no prohibition against eating food that's not kosher, and another group has no problems with birth control, that does not invalidate the beliefs of the other group. It merely means that different things were presented to different groups for different reasons. They may not be universal in nature, or they may be misunderstood. But I don't think that's something that happened by chance. There's a reason that each group has its set of rules. And even in the case where there may be a misunderstanding, and even if it exists for hundreds or thousands of years, there's a reason that the truth about it becomes clear at certain times. Earlier times were just not appropriate given the state of the world. Whether you say that it's God's will, or just based on the state of human knowledge at the time, it doesn't matter. They may both be true.
If there is an ultimate truth to be revealed, it will happen when the world is ready for it and people can accept it. Some people think it will be when the messiah comes, or returns. Others have different ideas. All I know is that we are not there yet.
posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
11.09.05 (12:30 pm)
Reply to: mblog
agreed. i would only add that the primacy of reason as the only tool for mankind's relationship to the observable world always remains the same. the conclusions of each individual reasoning entity, of course, are always in a state of flux -- hopefully an evolutionary flux -- but always changing, nonetheless.
there will always be 2 methods for any individual to relate to other individuals -- either by *influence* or by *power*. power always claims a derivative right to its supremecy. influence simply asks you to make the requisite observations and see if you come to a similar conclusion. we prosper or we suffer, all things equal, relative to our ability to accurately understand causal relationships in the world. the law of causation is fundamental and immutable for both the man of reason and for the mystic. the man of reason accepts this. the witchdoctor makes more sacrifices and burns more incense in an effort to win favor with an entity who they claim created all things, including the physical laws of the universe and man's ability to observe them. oh, the irony! :-)
posted by:
preceptlady (
reply)
post date:
11.10.05 (4:46 pm)
Jesus said"I am the way, the truth and the Life and NO ONE comes to the Father except by ME".
Seems to me there is no other way, no other authority, no other Truth, no other right way....He is the ONLY way.
His Truth is exactly that..Truth..anything else is false.
posted by:
fish_hfd (
reply)
post date:
06.29.07 (8:22 pm)
It's nice
