God Is Alive & Well In Dover PA
The city of Dover, PA, recently ousted 8 school board members who insisted upon interjecting Intelligent Design into their High School curriculum. This is a rural school, probably in a safe “Republican” area, and no doubt with lots of churches and God-fearing citizens. But apparently they tired of having a religious agenda forced into their schools.
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Here is what Pat Robertson had to say about the city of Dover, PA:
“I’d like to say to the good citizens of Dover. If there is a disaster in your area, don’t turn to God, you just rejected Him from your city. And don’t wonder why He hasn’t helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I’m not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted God out of your city. And if that’s the case, don’t ask for His help because he might not be there."
I like the response of Larry Gurreri, a newly elected school board member:
"This is a man of the cloth judging people and judging the whole town?" Gurreri said. "I would expect a whole lot better from someone in his position."
Robertson owes the Dover community an apology, he said.
"One person is going to judge me, and that's God," Gurreri said.
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Incoming board members say Intelligent Design will be taught in their school, just not in the Science classes, but in an elective Comparative Religions class.
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I just do not see that the theory of evolution necessarily excludes God, nor refutes the Bible. Many are theistic evolutionists, who believe that God is the Prime Mover of Creation. And some sincere Christians believe the Bible is a rich mixture of literary forms, never meant to be taken literally in all matters.
I also wonder why some consider it so essential to protect a High School student from a point of view which may challenge currently held convictions. High School is a time to grow and expand as a person. These young people have the right, and I think necessity, to consider evolution and see if it rightly fits into their view of the world. I have three teenagers, and I pray daily they will develop into the healthy and productive persons that I strive for them to be. Outside of my direct presence, they meet all kinds of people and confront all kinds of points of view. My daughter told me, tonight, that her Jewish friend will be celebrating Christmas with us and she will be observing Hanukah with his family. I’ve never done that, but I am excited for her. She told me her College roommate will be moving out to live with her boyfriend. It would break my heart if my daughter did likewise, and I guess I could send her to Falwell’s school to try to keep such from happening, but I choose to trust her within the arena of life. We have trained her well, pray for her, and trust her.
I do not believe God is overly concerned with whether Biology class begins with a mandatory disclaimer about evolution. I say let ‘em teach it. I’ll expose my children to the Biblical worldview at home and at church. And I’ll keep an eye on the school to make sure it is playing fair. Recently I went to parent’s/teacher’s conference at school. First I was amazed that so many parents were not present. But, I walked into the Social Studies classroom to meet the 10th Grade teacher. It was Black History month, and I looked around the room. Portraits of all kinds of dignitaries were on the walls, including Bill Clinton, but absent were Conservatives. I asked the teacher where were noted Black conservatives, like Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, and Thomas Sowell? I’m not sure she knew who these were, but she promised to look into it. My kids know who these people are. And, that’s the key.
Do I believe that evolution has the absolute answers to man’s origin? No. Do I believe Intelligent Design should be taught in public school? Let me teach my understanding of God and creation in my church and home. I believe a good teacher will be wise enough not to force any theory upon a student. Simply present the ideas, and let the learners decide. And I guarantee you I can teach the Bible better than my public school system.
11.12.05 (6:24 pm) [
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posted by:
Marijane24 (
reply)
post date:
11.13.05 (2:24 pm)
That sounds wierd to teach about god in an actual classroom at school. It is a public school right? If it was a private Catholic school then I could understand.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.13.05 (4:22 pm)
It is a public school. "Intelligent Design" is the theory that the universe and nature are so complex they point toward a personal creator. I think it is worthy of consideration, but I wonder if it should be taught in science classes in public schools. I do not trust the schools with the religious education of my children.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.17.05 (7:47 am)
Love the first half of your post... lol. I'm not too worried about Condileeza Rice being included as a role model for Black History month, as she's pretty much an Uncle (or should that be Aunt?) Tom.
Ole' Pat sure does step in it though doesn't he? Seems like once a month he's out there - fanning the fires of hate.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.17.05 (9:13 am)
So, here is an intelligent, thoughtful, compelling black who happens not to tow the democratic line of thought, and of course she is labeled with a derogatory epithet? It sounds to me like such a person must be a real threat to someone.
I do not think a public school teacher should exclusively promote liberal democrats as roll models for his/her students. An educator should set aside personal political agenda in the classroom, and do what he is paid to do- educate. Wheter or not you like such as Colin Powell, etc. - they are worthy of emulation by our young people.
posted by:
14u2nv2 (
reply)
post date:
11.17.05 (4:39 pm)
I agree with this..however..stiffling a childs religion/belief is not correct either. Therefore I say (for instance), if children wish to pray in school..they should be allowed. As long as it done in a way that dosen't disrupt classes. I also do believe that science has a real play in creation (unlike most christians) so therefore it is important. I however believe that the "big bang" was an act of God...all part of his plan..his works...and his creation :)
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.24.05 (7:35 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
Well, I don't think much of her... how's that? Excuse my name calling. Any government official that high on the totem pole who would be out shoe shopping during Katrina strikes me as callous and mean. I'm sure you know of, but probably have either ignored or rationalized, many of the things this lady has done to make it obvious to caring people that she will do whatever it takes to justify this war and the infallibility of this administration's decision making processes. To me, and I admit, it's just my flawed opinion, this is presumably because "she's got hers." (I can't see any other plausible reason for her refusing to be straight with the people she serves.) Colin Powell has the same take on her. I listened to him a few weeks ago carefully avoid using a similar term, but his meaning was clear.
She's an extremely well educated and well spoken woman, but toady nonetheless. Is that better?
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.24.05 (12:52 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
Personally I could care less if he gets "some" in the oval office. Like I said in my post from the goofy email that's been circulating... if a simple blow-job will make you ready to impeach instead of the real evil stuff these guys pull as policy, for goodness sake let's arrange it. Maybe if his sex life was more satisfying, he be less inclined to screw us and the rest of the planet... I must be stupid cuz I really just don't understand the way some people prioritize what they consider "high crimes and misdemeanors." It's flat out crazy and just sets me to shaking my head in awe.
I mean Kurt, what the democratic pols were up to is moot. THEY're not in charge. Geez. Come on. You sound like the bank robber caught in the act complaining that the next guy in line had an overdrawn account.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.24.05 (12:59 pm)
Reply to: surrogate
You know, I will condemn Clinton for his act of Insensitivity by doing his thing in the White House. That's an apt description. A long way from treason though, and certainly only impeachable because of the political whims of the house majority at the time, and yes I know he lied in a deposition, as you would have in the same circumstances, and as I would have. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.24.05 (4:44 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
Make you a deal. You find me a few things she's accomplished in the last five years in either position thats made the country safer... I cited that example because it was dumb. Take it away... Still a well dressed, well spoken toady. And by the way, these guys are NOT Republicans. No Republican administration has ever, EVER run up a deficit like this for any reason, even in adjusted dollars... Heck, we didn't do this kind of crap under Lincoln to fight a civil war! No Democrat has ever run up a deficit like this either. My complaint isn't that they're Republicans... it's that they're NOT. This is a cabal Kurt. Everyone who leaves and speaks out? What happens to them? And what's funny is that they (the administration), after doing the careful character assasination, never take the responsibility for having hired the people they've now decided are all lying about what they've seen and done while working there. Watch... Colin Powel is slowly stating to speak out. He's careful since he has aspirations of his own, and he knows these clowns, but you watch, if he starts to drill anywhere close to the nerve? They'll trash him big time....which, as things are starting to go might be a plus for him in the long run. Nothing better than being vilified by crooks, which more and more people are finally realizing these folks are. Tell me, are you old enough to have been a Nixon apologist? I knew a few who held on till the very end. They wouldn't read the reports, they were convinced that the whole thing was cooked up by the democrats (or the comunists) and even when Nixon did his long series of interview with David Frost and basicly admitted the whole thing, they STILL just couldn't, or wouldn't, wrap their minds around what had become starkly obvious to everyone else... My Dad used to call them "Human Ostriches." Smart guy, my old man.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.25.05 (5:24 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
I tryuly hope you're right... where I take exception is that ytou think you can exterminate an idea with military force... like shooting at smoke PLUS swtting the hornets nest (of a race of hornets with telepathic ablities to call other stingers into the fray from far and wide, or to tell them to bide their time...)
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.25.05 (6:57 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
He was a good president, but a decent man? Who am I to judge... You're right... he got what he deserved... which mean's you're not a Nixon apologist... The people I'm talking about refused to even see anything he (and really, mostly a few of his underlings) did was wrong. He was ahead of his time in foriegn Policy... I assure you he would NOT have done what these guys have done. His whole idea of opening up China wqas based on making sure we avoided war with them forever, if possible. And listen... I was an LBJ critic too. Carter (I know, I know) I loved. I still think had we listened to the guy we'd sure not be in the position we're in today with regards to Foriegn Oil dependency. I wonder if Pastor Dave liked Jimmy Carter? He was, after all, a favorite son of Dave's State!
Dave?
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.25.05 (8:20 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
Then you don't understand some things my friend... but I'm not going to bother trying over this... one of these days we'll have dinner and yap it out. You certainly know better than to assume that the man was that much of an economic fool don't you? His choice was simple and correct, but it was an easy policy to knock (what were you? ten?) The premise was SOOO forward thinking and still true, but he was hammered... His idea would have spurred a much longer growth period WITHOUT the tripling of the deficit under Reagan and all the junk economic policy. ...But I simply gaurantee you don't know anything about it, nor have you studied it or you wouldn't say what you're saying. Good standard response though! Stagflation... oh jeez, it sure was... Funny how you'll "stay the course" in war, but not with a simple policy that would have made us independent, prosperous and fiscally sound by just tightening our belts for a little while... Kurt, you speak so well, and you are just plain... nah. I love ya.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.25.05 (4:04 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
Reply to: surrogate
I stay away from t-blog for a couple of days and look what happens! I read through your comments, and must admit you guys are more politically astute than I.
What do I think of Jimmy Carter? His Carter Center is amazing. His modeling of the Christian faith is quite admirable, although I think he was quite inconsistent with his embrace of the leftwing social agenda of the democratic party while in office.
My first vote for president was for Carter. Second for him also. (Then Modale, then I "saw the light") I believe, if the hostage crisis had not occurred, he would have been reelected. I do remember high interest rates, high gasoline prices, canceling of the olympics, and the long ordeal of the hostage crisis when it seemed the might USA was impotent. Carter was weak. We needed Reagan to restore the credibility of America.
Now, Carter makes a great "former president", although he should keep his mouth shut on current sensitive political matters and just build houses. But I could certainly worship in the same church with him, and would invite him to fill my pulpit anytime (fat chance of that!).
Surrogate, I think you are right, economically these guys in the white house are anything but true Republicans. But the war against Islam-fascist-terrorists-thugs trumps everything. This is WWIII, I believe.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.25.05 (4:13 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
Dave... just one question about your last statement as it's so jarring to me. You think Jesus would take that stand? And if not, who you workin' for?
Explain it to me please. I can understand someone feeling that way, but according to YOUR statement. you MUST think God's on "our" side... and doesn't love those who oppose our forces as much as he loves "you." Plus, you must think Jesus was full of **** when He SPECIFICALLY said to love our enemies. You don't get to have it both ways... period. Sorry.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.25.05 (4:37 pm)
Reply to: surrogate
It seems you are using a favorite tactic of us preachers, seeking to induce guilt by taking a couple of statements, interpreting them out of context, and hitting the audience between the eyes with a stark choice. I don't know if God is on the side of America. I do believe these Islamists are devoid of conscience. How else do you explain their rampant and ongoing murder of civilians. True, innocents die as the result of American actions, but not as an intentional strategy. The only way to defeat such an enemy is to kill him. Would Jesus allow me to kill an enemy in the course of warfare? Perhaps. I oppose the death penalty. I opposed the Vietnam War. But I am not a pacifist. The Old Testament is replete with accounts of warfare.
I believe many things break the heart of God. Surely the Amercan love affair with the almight dollar grieve Him, and I believe will within my lifetime bring the wrath of God upon my generation. And I believe God's heart must equally be stricken by the murderous lack of love of these terrorists.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.25.05 (4:40 pm)
you avoided the point and you know it Dave...
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.25.05 (4:42 pm)
Reply to: surrogate
Sorry. As I was trying to formulate my thoughts, my wife kept talking and talking. But I think I got the thought across to you. Now, let's see, hows the best way to sleep on this couch?
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.25.05 (4:44 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
Dave,,, you forget these poeple think THEY are acting for love of God too...
That's why we are simply NOT ALLOWED to talk, inspire, or act in hate... and you do hate these people... it's a problem
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.25.05 (4:49 pm)
Reply to: surrogate
Not intentionally avoiding. Must a pastor be a pacifist? Not according to my understanding of the faith. I respect those who disagree- Quakers, Menonites, Jehovah's Witness, etc.
Let me make a statement that might be rather jarring to you: I believe you can love a person and yet kill that person. Such is rationale for the involvement of a Christian in warfare, or police work, or executing the death penalty.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.25.05 (4:55 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
you people refuse to accept the basic truth of the statement "love your enemies" and the power in it...
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
11.25.05 (7:09 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
smaht azz
