posted by:
ScarlettGKPi (
reply)
post date:
03.07.06 (5:46 pm)
I just don't think I can bring myself to watch it. I am NOT homophobic though. It's just that God outright states in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong and that we as Christians are not to accept it. I really don't care if everyone on tBlog hates me for the rest of my life but I know that homosexuality is wrong.
posted by:
Fairmoon (
reply)
post date:
03.07.06 (5:47 pm)
i've avoided seeing the movie, not because i fear homosexuality, but because the whole story seems to be so sad. There is no way any of the people in the story can find happiness. The marriages seem empty and hollow and I find the whole thing heartbreaking. I have felt enough of those emotion in my past, I don't need to bring them up again.
I watch movies to escape and find enjoyment- for the most part. I think that movie would just make be feel very sad and helpless.
My two cents.
FM
posted by:
mimi (
reply)
post date:
03.07.06 (6:07 pm)
I haven't seen this but your description seems fair and I will look forward to hearing what more you have to say about it.
xoxo
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.07.06 (6:10 pm)
Reply to: Fairmoon
Some movies have as their purpose pure escapism and simple entertainment. We all need such, sometimes. But a movie can also make a statement in a powerful and unique way. Then it transcends entertainment. The problem, for me, is when it tries too hard to do such. Then it becomes laborious, even boring. Brokeback Mountain is a quality statement movie. You walk away with a challenge to consider. If I can preach a sermon and accomplish the same, then it was a good sermon.
Now, there is much about the actual message of the movie that I disagree with. I think it is a false message that homosexuality is natural and to be celebrated. I think it is wrong that the unhappiness of a gay person is to be ascribed to the prejudice of society. And I think it is unfair and wrong for any person who is married to have a sexual relationship with someone outside of his marriage. It's adultery, and it is an insult to to your mate, the institution of marriage, and God.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.07.06 (6:16 pm)
Reply to: ScarlettGKPi
"...not to accept it." I will have to think about that. As people who live in a free society, we must allow the other person the right to be gay. I would not want to make homosexuality a crime. I accept the gay person as a person worthy of being treated with dignity.
Now, we do not need to agree with homosexuality as an equal and valid approach to human sexuality. We can say that our Christian beliefs are not compatible with such. We can believe that active homosexual behavior is because of sin, and does not lead to the quality and joy of life that God intends for us.
You will probably get blasted, and so I thought I would stand next to you and take the hit also!
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.07.06 (6:21 pm)
Reply to: mimi
I believe this to be a very important movie. It makes a strong statement. It is a celebrated and glorified movie in liberal circles, and has ben "pumped" for awards and accolades. Because of this movie, many more like it will be coming. It has bolstered the homosexual agenda in our nation. Part of it's power is that it is a gentle statement. It puts homosexuality on a personal and sympathetic level. It is not a mean-spirited movie.
Please join in the conversation as this review unfolds.
posted by:
MidnightEpicure (
reply)
post date:
03.07.06 (7:24 pm)
one thing on the whole natural homosexuality thing. well, mabye more than one thing. first of all, i have seen (and no, i dont actively look for this) homosexual squirrels, birds, dogs (my ex girlfriends dog is quite gay) and horses. to think that these animals with no sense of choice went against nature is impossible. if homosexuality were a choice among humans, then no one would be. its constantly persecuted, and sexual intercourse with the opposite sex is more satisfying physically. on the subject of celebrating homosexuality, thats up to you. the only reason that homosexuality is considered a sin in the bible is because those simple, yet brilliant people didnt understand human nature. its the same reason that many cultures of olde consider depression a sin and the same reason still that people thought that epileptics were possessed by satan. as i am not a christian, i can believe what i choose, rather than seek to support a book that was written, with imperfections, thousands of years ago by people who are not even of your creed. the bible is adapted from the torah, which is heavily influenced by hammuribi and the babylonians. i know this will get through to no one, but i am not taking a shot at religion. im saying take a step back from it and open your eyes to the world your god created. just embrace the fact that some people are born gay. if it wasnt in their genes from the time of conception, then it wouldnt happen at puberty. and if youre not gay, then dont celebrate it. easy as that. if the bible can be interpreted to change the fact that "gloominess" or depression is natural, then why not homosexuality? even if everyone were to accept it as a disease, like depression, or defect in the genes, that would take an immense amount of pressure off of the gay population. im sure, since gay people do not produce children, thereby helping the population, darwinists (which im sure are also among your favorites)would consider it as such. believe it or not, there are gay people in your church- open and in hiding. they are better people than are some of the straight people, speaking statistically, and by probability. tell these good people that a huge part of their lives is against god's will. watch them leave your church, and mabye even abandon god if you press enough.
now from what little about pastor dave i have read, i dont think he has to worry about this, as he seems to be a generally tolerant christian. which makes him all the more like the man you all seek to emulate- christ himself. he was said to be tolerant of all, no?
on another note, i have to thank you personally pastordave (as the upper body of text was for anyone), for not shutting the movie out solely for its message, or just because there is gay people in it.
but what do i know? im just a kid.
"I really don't care if everyone on tBlog hates me for the rest of my life but I know that homosexuality is wrong." ~go get em tiger. even though im not a christian, i learned a lot from the bible. youre forgiven. :)
posted by:
Cutter (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (1:55 am)
1. I'm glad that you saw the film.
2. I'm REALLY PISSED OFF at you for not posting a warning with this entry. I DIDN'T SEE IT YET!!!! You gave the movie away!!!!! grrrrr
posted by:
ruined (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (2:08 am)
I think your overview of the movie was extremely fair... excellently done! But, I'm with fairmoon. I don't know if it's just my film preference, but I like to be entertained. I hate being hit broadside with segmented special interests trying to desensitize me to what society *should* accept as perfectly normal, especially when I give my money to be entertained. Really, to be bluntly honest, I think the movie really got in the way of the scenery... That is such a beautiful area. :)
posted by:
LeananSidhe (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (5:31 am)
I won't comment on the content of the movie because I haven't watched it yet but I will comment on the scenery because it was filmed in the area I live...and yes, it's beautiful! My daughter had a chance to be an extra in this movie but mean 'ol mom wouldn't let her miss her final exams at school...she may never forgive me for taking away her chance to meet Heath Ledger :(
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (8:12 am)
Reply to: Cutter
An appropriate criticism, my friend. And I should be flogged for not giving a warning. I'll do better next time. I don't think "entertaining" is an appropriate word, but I do believe you would find this movie to be worthwhile. It's long, and sometimes tedious. But the theme is relentless, like a cadance that builds and builds. These guys are heading over a cliff, you just know it.
I do hope that as soon as possible you see this movie, and then give me some feedback. Particularly I am interested to know if I correctly understand what is being said.
Can hardly believe I am the only one, so far, on here who has seen the movie. My goodness; I'm a conservative, protestant minister. You guys disappoint me!
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (8:18 am)
Reply to: ruined
So, you think this movie could be an effort at desensitization? I guess my response would be, "Is that bad"? Gays are human beings. They feel pain, and they deserve to be loved. I know you agree.
One part of the movie tells the story of a neighbor of Ethan, an elderly man who was gay. He was brutally murdered, and Ethan's dad forced him to view the corpse. The intent was to impress upon him how dangerous it is to be gay. I am sure there are such ignorant and evil people in society, but we can intentionally stay away from them. As a minister, I know when someone hates me, and I stay away from such danger. There are people who hate gays. Not a lot. They are to be pitied, and avoided. And I do not agree they are the reason a gay person is unhappy.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (8:21 am)
Reply to: LeananSidhe
This movie was filmed where you live? Suddenly I am jealous. What breathtaking scenery. I love the high skies and the jagged mountains. I love the idea of being the only car on the road- something to never experience here where I live. I like verything about it, except the cowboy boots. The most uncomfortable article of clothing ever invented, I think.
Too bad your daughter could not participate in the movie. It would have been a most memorable experience. Finals, they do get in the way.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (8:36 am)
Reply to: MidnightEpicure
There is a difference between a homosexual act, and a homosexual nature. I think some animals, like my dog, are just horny. He will hump anything, even a fencepost. That doe not make him gay. As humans, we have the unique gift of being able to make choices about such matters as with whom to have sex. And, although I am not a psychologist, I believe there develops a curious time in most lives, and some choose to experiment in homosexuality. So the act does not make the nature.
Of course, you would not expect me to agree with your take on the inspiration and trustworthiness of the Bible. I define mine as "Biblically-based Christianity". The Bible is my guidebook in all matters of faith and practice. It is inspired and totally trustworthy. it is mighty shaky gound upon which to tread for one to throw out the Bible and still claim to be Christian. I can't do it.
I appreciate very much your description of my as "tolerant". It is a good word. It is more true for me than "open-minded". I can live and work, fellowship and converse and enjoy a diversity of people. I truly like those who are different from me. And we are equal as human beings, and in God's sight. But not all opinions have equal truth. Not all matters of morality and spiritulity and beliefs have equality of truth. I do believe Biblical Christianity to be the Truth. So I believe active homosexuality to be contrary to God's intent for our lives. I will tolerate homosexuality, but I do not acept it as equally valid as heterosexuality.
Man I am glad you came this way. I hope you come back often. You do not know how much I deeply value and respect the exchange of ideas withthose who differ with me and challenge me. Thanks.
posted by:
FinalyFree (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (8:55 am)
I haven't seen the movie...yet. Eventhough I know the ending(lol) I will still rent it. Personally I thought there was way too much hype surrounding the movie, I am glad to know it's a quality film--if you can deal with the content--which I can.
Morality is a very subjective thing, I think. We can spout scripture for hours that condemns homosexuality, that's undeniable. In the same way we can spend days condemning fornication--but there's rarely a movie that comes out of Hollywood these days that doesn't showcase adultery, fornication and lust. Right? Why is there such a fuss over one sin as opposed to the other? Because some people are terrified of homosexuals. Very few are afraid of their next door neighbors, co-workers or family--many of whom are guilty of sex outside of marriage. I'm not trying to support either side, more just trying to make the point that there aren't big sins and little sins where the Bible is concerned, in fact I 'think' God really despises liars, why aren't we all up in arms about that?
posted by:
Bhere4me (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (9:21 am)
I will not se that movie. I am sorry, I will not support the fact that homosexuality is becoming a normal and accepted thing in our culture. I am sorry if this offends you (if you are gay/lesbian/bi) but homosexuality is wrong. It is very obvious, just by our anatomy that a man was made for a woman and a woman for a man. It is sad when my sister, mom and I are watching tv and a commercial with tweo woman in bed come on and my mom and I are like, "oh that is gross" and my sister goes "what, they are just gay" I told her that that is not even accepted here, and she said she is not saying she is gay. I told her that she needs to realize it isn't normal at all. not acceptable. but also that we do not judge the people, we hate what they do. But not to not be friends with someone just because they are gay. I have a gay friend, but he also knows that i think that what he "is" is wrong. It is sad, this country is sad.
posted by:
carcinogen (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (9:53 am)
I'm proud of you Dave. I'm surprised you actually saw the film. Most of the time the Christian community is so quick to attack a film like this as opposed to seeing what it is about first. I had expected a preachy post about avoiding this film and warnings about how the fabric of morality is being unraveled or something silly. But no. Good job. Sharing without condemnation. Good job. While our stances on homosexuality differ, I respect the approach you took on sharing your view and your method of presenting it.
posted by:
CitizenKane (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (10:40 am)
I think your way of approaching this movie was very intelligent on your part. If you had come out guns blazing and attacking every idea but your own, you would have met a brick wall (except the people who agree with you). You have more of a chance of gaining an audience with your point of view. As many people who preach the Bible, there are as many people who preach Against the Bible. I believe in God and I read the Bible but some people who do really push my buttons and irritate me. I've always thought (and I could be wrong) that we should tolerate other people. We don't have to like it and we don't have to agree with them but it IS a free country. What makes our beliefs more important than others?
I guess what I'm trying to say, quite unsuccessfully, is that the sterotype of a Christian is an unmoving intolerant bigot....let's try and break that. :)
posted by:
ruined (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (12:18 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
As for Hollywood trying to desensitize the public, I think that is part of it. Why else would Hollywood release 2 movies revolving around the theme of homosexuality? Sounds like somebody has an agenda... :)
posted by:
tucky (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (12:33 pm)
Reply to: ScarlettGKPi
hey so i was wondering if you have watched tv or any movies lately... it seems that there is a lot of sex before marraige, violance, oh lets throw in body modifacations (tatoos,braces,piercings)and well adultry in 90% of the media. Last i check that was also against the bible... So why don't you bury yourself in a whole and don't look at anything buddddy.
On another note GOD MADE ME GAY... and GOD MADE YOU JUDGEMENTAL... weird
Nice post Pastor Dave!
posted by:
dangerkitty (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (2:58 pm)
When I watched Brokeback Mountain, for a time I forgot that this was a love story between two men. I saw two people who could not be together because of fear and other circumstances. You could see that Ennis felt that their relationship was wrong, Jack disagreed. To me the story goes beyond a gay agenda. To me it is a story about not being free to be who you are and to love freely. It does make you sympathetic but it also shows you the destructive side of a life full of secrets and repressed emotions.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (4:06 pm)
Reply to: FinalyFree
Scared of homosexuals? I think you are right. And this is heightened because we see such an angry persona in much of our media. We do not notice, but gays are likely in our daily lives. I have no doubt we work, attend church, and are kin to good and worthwhile persons who happen to be gay. There is no reason to fear someone who is homosexual.
You make a good point about adultery. I would even go so far as to say that adultery is a much bigger moral quandary for America than homosexuality. Yet we sometimes wink at those who have extramarital affairs or have sex without marriage. To me, such cheapens and misuses a wonderful gift from God. How can it be more acceptable?
Good points. Thanks for your comments.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (4:23 pm)
Reply to: Bhere4me
Well.
This is a significant movie. When "Firewall" and "Walk The Line" and most of the other currently popular movies are long forgotten, This movie will still have its place in history. It is a major advancement for the gays of America. It does portray the lifestyle as more acceptable, more sympathetic. That's why I think it would be beneficial for a mature adult to atleast experience and wrestle with its message.
I am a conservative Christian pastor. I seek to be biblical in my approach to ministry and life. I ask myself the question, "What would Jesus do?"
I think He would love and engage in relationship the person who is gay. Probably He would have no problem going to such person's home. He went to the home and party of Matthew the tax collector, a notorious "sinner". Perhaps he would put His arm around the gay person and laugh, and hug. Did you know He actually touched a leper, considered by all else to be unclean and the ultimate sinner? And I find it interesting that his choices of the 12 Disciples included Simon the Zealot (a terrorist and assasin) and Judas Iscariot (thief and traitor) and Peter (filthy mouth, tendency toward violence) and Matthew (tax collector, traitor to his own people). Shall we mention mary Magdalene (probable prostitute).
Let me be strait- I believe, to engage is gay sexual behavior, is sin. It is contrary to the teachings of the New Testament.
But someone who is actively gay is not an animal. Maybe he so despises churches and Christians because he has never met a real Christian? A real Christian would not hate another person, or be hateful toward that person. Our weapon for changing the life of another person is not a sword. It is love. "He that loves not knows not God, for God is love."(I John 4). "He that saith I love God, and yet hates his brother, walks in darkness". (I John 5).
Is there a gay agenda with the media? Probably.
Are gay persons evil? They are just people.
If I'm giving a mixed message here, tell me. I think this is a most significant issue for the cause of Christ.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (4:31 pm)
Reply to: carcinogen
My friend, don't be so quick to compliment. I am tolerant, but not embracing of homosexuality. I do consider the behavior to be sin. But I don't think I should be mean in my attitude toward another human being. I must remember that I, too, am a sinner. As another comment has reminded us, we have no business elevating this issue above others like adultery or lying. I'm not scared of gays. I don't hate gays. And I know that I have no business being self-righteous in my attitude toward any other sinner. We're all in the same boat. I rely on the grace and mercy of God. If my goodness is my ticket to heaven, then I will surely bust Hell wide open.
Sorry about the little diatribe! Thanks for your kind words.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (4:37 pm)
Reply to: tucky
Let's give Scarlett time to wrestle with the issue, pray about it, and see what happens. Theology on the printed page, conservative Christian theology, tells us that the homosexual act is wrong. I agree. I'm just not sure it is effective or proper to point my finger at an individual and call that person a name. God connects with the individual. I am to live out the message of my faith. My words have some importance. My actions are more important. My love speaks the loudest. So if we as conservative Christians want to truly change the world, we will do so as servants and lovers, not masters and warriors.
Hey, that would make a good statement in a Sunday sermon!
thanks, tucky.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (4:41 pm)
Reply to: dangerkitty
Pretty good; I agree. Living a lie will destroy you. But I think the lie for Ennis and Jack was in their compromise. They tried to play both sides, and in the process destroyed so many lives in addition to themselves.
It is so good to find someone else who has actually seen the movie! When I went, there were only 5 of us in the theatre. Of course that was a Monday night. But I don't think the movie is all that popular with the public, certainly not a blockbuster. Still, I though a few more t-bloggers would have seen it.
posted by:
bacardibreezer (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (6:01 pm)
Damn did you ever start a debate! LOL I have yet to see this, but I really want to.
Now as far as the homosexuality thing I gotta chime in...
As most people know I have attractions to males and females and I think love doesn't care what sex the person is; what always matters is what is on the inside and therefore male or female, you love who you love. I'm also extremely open minded and I do not follow a religion that tells me what to believe, I go by my own life experiences and that makes me happy.
posted by:
carcinogen (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (6:11 pm)
Oh, I know your stance on homosexuality. And like I said, while I don't agree with you on it, I can respect you for the method in which you protest it. As oppposed to fire and brimstone, and classic "gays are bad" spouting, you took one of the rare views of 'love the person, hate the sin'. Sadly, today we usually see hate the person because of the sin. Of course I would love to debate this with you all day long, but there is no point here. I simply wish to commend you on your tact in presentation.
posted by:
MidnightEpicure (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (6:42 pm)
hmm, good point pastor. the homosexual act is the sin. my question is, is it a sin to be gay? if it isnt, then it is only wrong to sodomize, because technically, premarital sex is a sin anyways. in this, it is said that in return for the trial of being a homosexual christian, you will be rewarded with heaven(you may also be asked to "get saved" depending on your religion and interpretation of the bible). this i understand. and yes, bisexuality is EXTREMELY trendy these days. teens often say they are for attention (deceit). but there are some, and i dare say most of the gay population, that have not chosen their preference. to them, sex with the opposite would feel wrong, just as a homosexual act would to you. to me, this makes sense. my anger with god, or grievance rather, was that homosexuality itself was the sin. a homosexual is not a sodomite until he commits the act. let me know what you think. as one who is familiar with the text, i will consider your opinion.
on a side note, either i mispoke or you misread. i am not a christian, but the bible is a great piece of literature from which to learn how to live, and if youre very good at deciphering language that has been torn apart and rewritten and translated hundreds of times, you can learn a bit of history.
i believe everything in the bible happened, in one way or another, and that it is trustworthy. i also believe however, that the catholic church was losing its following and edited it time and time again to make christ seem less human, and more god. the bible is trustworthy, but the churches in the past were corrupted by money. priests were the only ones who could read latin, and therefore could tell their listeners whatever they saw fit. and who knows what the romans did to put it into latin. you may be aware of a former policy that said heaven was open to any sinner, for the right weight in gold.
i believe jesus said, for the most part, every red word in that book, just as i believe he was an excellent teacher and a brilliant philosopher. i do not believe that he was the son of god(according to the bible, every man is. what made him so special for it?), nor that he ever claimed to be, unless as an allegory.
strangely enough, i have never read the bible from cover to cover. i dont have any passages memorized. do i plan to read it? yes. i will not read it as a creed, doctrine, or law- i will read it as poetry. the bible is naught but a long poem. or a collection of poems gathered by different authors, the second half is mostly (if not all) students of christ himself. its written in a lose form of verse. hence the term "bible verse." its very good writing- timeless. and the stories within are not to be taken literally (although they can be, have been, and will be forever), but as reference to life, and as guidance, should you choose to take it. jesus set a lot of people straight. perhaps lazerus had given up on life, and jesus had merely convinced him that his life was worth living. if taking the bible literally works for you, then so be it. but although you are older than i, you have no more experience with the afterlife and no more knowledge of our purpose than i do. faith? yes, your faith is your drive, and for that i admire you. there is little i wouldnt give to make it that easy. but until i decide, while i am here, i will live here. i will grow as a person, being the best i can be for myself and those around me. when i get lost, i just might refer to the words of god's chosen.
posted by:
MidnightEpicure (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (6:46 pm)
oh, in response to your rather irritating liberal bust .gif on the bottom of your page:
"annoy a conservative: think of others & and do america some good."
mean? haha, very. forgive my language, but i work my ass off. i guess im more libertarian/politically apathetic, but that doesnt mean that liberals dont work hard. they just dont work towards what you want them too. ;)
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
03.08.06 (7:25 pm)
Reply to: MidnightEpicure
show me a person, even a married person, who isn't a sodomite in some way shape or form (even oral sex is considered sodomy) and I'll show you someone who cheats or lies.
-Just a little aside. I'm hoping to see the movie Friday night.
posted by:
ScubaDiva (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (3:34 am)
I was going to wait until it came out on DVD and get it from the library, but you just saved me the time. (kidding)
I guess we can be thankful that they didn't turn their affections to the sheep instead of each other?
I'm not one to judge what goes on between two consenting adults - except for when there is another person involved. (ie wives, girlfriends, etc) Then again, being gay in a major city is a lot different than in rural middle America.
Ironically, I met with a VP of a large company last night to talk about sponsorship $ for the event I'm working on. He's married. And has a mistress. And hit on me. Whether it's a man, woman or sheep - straying from a committed relationship is wrong.
posted by:
ScubaDiva (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (4:53 am)
Saw this and thought you'd get a chuckle out of it:
http://www.dailysixer.com/brokeback.shtml
posted by:
FinalyFree (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (7:19 am)
Reply to: PastorDave
Well thank you for the forum! I think my biggest problem with all the controversy is the point I made in the first post--there aren't any big sins and little sins. A sin is a sin. You don't see a lot of heated debates about lying, do we? People who constantly say things like, 'I don't support a movie like Brokeback because homosexuality is morally wrong according to the Bible.'Well wake up folks, the majority of story lines in film today are based upon other sins. I am a Christian with a huge devotion to my religion but it makes me insane to hear this kind of arguement. Jesus' time on Earth was spent teaching of God's love and grace...not condemnation.
posted by:
graceshaker (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (7:41 am)
if ever there was an issue bieng 'crammed down peoples throats' these days its this one. from both sides. and its real annoying.
i appreciate your take on this dave. i appreciate that you have responded in grace and not condemnation. at the same time i have absolutely no desire to see this movie. not bc of the homosexuality issue - tho im tired of it - but bc of the adultery issue. looks like you address that in your follow up so i will continue my thot there in response...
posted by:
tucky (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (12:09 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
no prob Pastor Dave!!!
being gay is not hurting anybody but the people that are gay. i don't understand why everybody is so worried about it. It is my life if i want to live this "sin" i should be able to make my own choses. Pastor Dave i am trying to get some insight on this issue... i did not mean to sound angery. sorry!
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (12:55 pm)
Reply to: bacardibreezer
Well, of course you have the freedom as a human being to pursue a relationship with any consenting adult, as long as it does not unduly harm others.
You are aware, I guess, that this very insistence upon freedom and to be in charge of your life is what will keep you from following Christ. He insists upon being Lord of one's life. No longer can I be in charge of my life if I am to follow Him. Some, I guess most, see that as terribly restrictive and unattractive. Not me.
I do appreciate your willingness to actively communicate on my blog, and you are refreshingly honest. I'll bet your family, while they love you, do not know what to do with you. You probably drive your dad crazy! And he's probably proud of you.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (12:58 pm)
Reply to: carcinogen
Very kind of you. I do seek to be reasonable and tactful. Sometimes I succeed. And I know that in some ways, some areas, I am blind. The eyes need to be opened. That's a big reason why I blog, and why folks like yourself are import to me at this juncture in my journey.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (1:11 pm)
Reply to: MidnightEpicure
I'll have to differ- my faith does not make my life easy; it greatly complicates, and even is an impediment to a pleasurable life. But it does far enrich everything.
You have thought deeply about the import of the scriptures, and I recognize a great respect for those scriptures, and I admire both. To borrow a phrase from Jesus, I think you "are not far from the Kingdom of God." You are seeking, open, and unwilling to become entrapped in a compromise. I think your journey is a healthy journey.
The one factor about the Bible that enables me to consider it to be trustworthy is the belief in divine preservation. Not only inspired of God, but preserved. Through history, corruption, translation, etc. I'm not worried about the "jots and tittles", but the story and message. It's clear and unambiguous.
I do not know that I am any wiser than you. Age does not necessarily make wisdom. I'm wiser than I was 20 years ago, and even a year ago. But I'm pretty dense, with a long way to go.
I will challenge you. Please take this the right way; it is said with a smile. Don't decide that you are too smart, or too sophisticated, for God. Think about it.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (1:12 pm)
Reply to: MidnightEpicure
You are welcome to steal my "blinkie" and adapt it for your own convoluted purpose!
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (1:15 pm)
Reply to: surrogate
Maybe I shouldn't ask this.... Well, yes I will...How about couples who only engage in missionary stuff? And I'm not talking about church missions.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (1:17 pm)
Reply to: ScubaDiva
Now you know this to be a man of questionable character, not to be trusted. Get it in writing if you do business with him.
Wait and borrow it from the library. You are cheap!
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (1:22 pm)
Reply to: FinalyFree
Let's consider the attitude of Jesus toward morality. A woman was caught in the act of adultery. The crowd said to stone her. Jesus said, OK, let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Thus she was spared. Then Jesus looked at her and said, "Neither do I condemn you. GO AND SIN NO MORE." (John 11). The Jesus of the Bible is concerned about morality, living in a proper way. He just teaches that relating to God involves more.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (1:27 pm)
Reply to: graceshaker
A question in the Christian circles in which I hang: "Should a Christian go to see R Rated movies?" I respect and understand, even admire, those who say no. But I have a different take on the matter. R means there to be nudity, bad language, or adult themes in the movie. Sounds like the Bible to me. I will not go to a movie to be singularly entertained by such stuff. But if such content is a necessary part of a quality message, then I will consider watching the movie.
I do consider this to be a notable movie. The issue is a real issue. I deal with gays in my ministry regularly. I also deal with bigotry even in the church. These are important issues to me.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (1:30 pm)
Reply to: tucky
Angry? I never even thought such. I know angry when I encounter such. It hasn't popped up in this forum, so far. You are quite reasonable, and I have no problem with disagreement and challenge. Heck, you can even get angry if you would like.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (4:45 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
As I said... show me a person, even a member of a married couple who engages in missionary postition sex only? I'll show you a liar, or a cheat or both, or (a little addition) one or both of them fast on the way to lying AND cheating.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (4:48 pm)
Reply to: surrogate
Not a debate I care to enter.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (4:50 pm)
(I just asked this question of a friend of mine sitting here...) "Have you ever been involved in a sexual relationship of any kind for any length of time where the only thing that occured in the bedroom was missionary position sex... She said "Sure" (and then she smirked guiltily.) So I called HER a liar AND a cheater.
She just hit me. Really hard.
Ouch.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (5:25 pm)
Reply to: surrogate
There are different ways of being missionary. Northern missionary, Southern missionary, home missionary...
posted by:
graceshaker (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (6:21 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
i dont mind r rated movies. one of my absolute favorite movies is se7en with morgan freeman brad pitt and kevin spacey. it makes such a stark statement about sin and how we tolerate it - and it does so in such an ironic way - that i consider it one of the best movies of all time.
maybe youre missing my point....
posted by:
MidnightEpicure (
reply)
post date:
03.09.06 (8:19 pm)
surrogate, i think you lost my point. my point was that gay people arent sinning if they dont sodomize, which is a universal sin. yes, some married couples engage in sodomy, whatever. i think you just wanted to say "oral sex."
i was saying that if a gay man or woman can live their life without sodomy, they can still be gay and practice their faith righteously, provided they dont get involved in politics. :p
