posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
07.26.06 (8:19 am)
Yes, my former mother-in-law! ;-)
Just kiddin... (sort of)
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
07.26.06 (8:29 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
You still remember her? Let it go, let it go!
posted by:
babe4jesus55 (
reply)
post date:
07.26.06 (8:30 am)
Wow. My impression is that the general population labels every Christian that way. Perhaps I'm making a generalization out of limited experience due to my age; please prove me wrong.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
07.26.06 (8:41 am)
Reply to: babe4jesus55
Well, the old saying is that most folks really do not have a problem with Christ; it's just those blasted Christians! If we would display more of the joy and love of Christ, then I think we would be better advertisements for our faith.
In my view, the general population no longer sees the average Christian as unhappy/unattractive. Instead, they see the average Christian as empty- living a faith of conveneince, a faith that has miniscule impact upon daily life.
I don't know which is a worse ad for the faith- a legalistic Christian or an empty Christian.
posted by:
babe4jesus55 (
reply)
post date:
07.26.06 (8:49 am)
Reply to: PastorDave
OOO that's a good question. Neither has real faith-- the legalistic one putting their faith in rules and the empty one putting faith in the label "Christianity" instead of Jesus. I think it's a tie.
posted by:
inkspector (
reply)
post date:
07.26.06 (9:05 am)
At the present time -- I know two people who qualify by this description.
Every once in a while, I do have to deal with them and thank goodness it is every once in a while.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
07.26.06 (4:44 pm)
Reply to: inkspector
I've found, if you really want to be a challenge to such people, just smile a lot and be really pleasant. It's quite a challenge to them.
posted by:
seochris (
reply)
post date:
07.26.06 (6:41 pm)
oh its so much representing their character. Though one should be more practical and more than everything love Jesus. What's your view Pastor?
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
07.27.06 (8:03 am)
gosh. i hope i am not like that !! i hate it when people categorize others. as christian's we tend to get categorized alot. bible thumpers, fundamentalists, well, you know. the list goes on and on.
i try not to label people. i still do it. i don't like the prostylization methods of Jehovah witnesses and mormons. my grandparents were mormon. i just don't answer the door. i have tried to answer the door and argue, but it is rather like beating your head against a brick wall. all you get is a headache. doesn't impress the brick wall at all.
as a catholic i get alot of prejudice from fellow christians. the funniest to me is that they don't think catholics ARE christians. Hello.
the other one is that catholics pray to saints. catholics DO NOT pray to anyone other than God or Jesus. but even some catholics dont' know that. how funny is THAT?
catholics do however ASK the Saints to PRAY for us. it is called intercessionary prayer, and every single christian church does it. every single sunday when they pray for those members of their own congregations who may be sick or needing something. we pray for someone else.
that is intercessionary prayer.
as a catholic, i ask lots of people to pray for me and those i know of in need. some of the people i ask to pray for me are alive, some are not alive. that is the only difference.
prejudice, what a funny thing. and how great is the influence of evil over us, in silent and insidious ways as well as loud and up front ways.
imho
dawn
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
07.27.06 (12:08 pm)
Reply to: fractalmom
It sounds to me like you interact a good bit with the general Christian community, so you should not be surprised that many have a problem with the idea of passing one's prayers along to a deceased saint. It is a big difference between Catholics and Protestants, although I believe Episcopalians also have "saints".
Help me to understand: You say you are not praying to a saint, but asking him/her to pass your prayer along to God. You are communicating with the saint, it seems. Being representative of the average Christian who is not familiar with this particular practice, it does sound rather close to prayer. I know a very strong part of the Christian faith is the avoidance of idolatry. We agree with the Jewish understanding there is only one God. I know such Biblical characters as Paul, Silas, and John clearly forbade others from bowing down to them. I think, if I were in heaven and somehow knew that a person on earth was trying to communicate a need to me, I would say to that person, "Don't tell me. Tell God!"
I do not think that you are not a Christian! I'm simply, by responding to the subject, seeking to interact a bit and seeking to understand better.
Thanks.
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
07.27.06 (6:32 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
good question !! there are a few biblical passages in Revelations that refer to the intercessory prayers of the saints. everyone is pretty familiar with those, and frankly, they are pretty weak. there is a passage in James 5:16 which reads "Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much."
As intercession, we all pray for others regularly. Asking one of the saints to pray for you or one you love is in the definition of "supplication".
one of the definitions of supplication is as follows: "a humble request for help from someone in authority".
it might be nice to know that I at least, pray firstly and foremost to God. Always have. and it is not simply to 'hedge my bet' that i ask the saints to pray for me or someone i know of. it is in the nature of asking someone you know who is close to someone to intercede on your behalf. there is immense power in prayer, that is a known factor. the saints are very close to God. that is not a known fact, but a strong belief. saints are referred to again and again in both the old testatment and the new. it is not in the way of asking for stupid things, or unecessary things, or material things. my petitions to the saints are prayers for those who are suffering from cancer or other terminal illnesses, or for those who are particularly burdened, or those going through great trials and tribulations. not to win the lottery, not to sell my house, not to find my lost keys. I do believe that the saints hold a special place in God's love, not more special than you or I or the sparrow i saw this morning, and yet, perhaps differently special. all those who suffer pain and loss in the name of Jesus are special to God. and so, I do ask those who suffered and are rewarded in Heaven as God promised they would be, I do ask them to intercede with prayer on behalf of those needy down here that i know of.
perhaps i am wrong. none of us will really know until we die.
posted by:
TheRockSays (
reply)
post date:
07.27.06 (6:35 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
And I think that if Christian were just a little more mindful that this is not a struggle against flesh and blood, then there might be less of a tendancy to react to social events and trends, and concentrate on what is
absolutely right and... well, if
I was able to do that then I'd probably be able to tell you, but whatever it is, I'm sure it's good!
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
07.29.06 (7:19 am)
Wow, Kurt and I have the same former Mother-in-law.
I just listened to that book again a few weeks ago... damn, that dude can really put words together gud, huh? (I get misty-eyed too many times when I listen to or read his writing, which, by the way, makes me hate him.)
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
07.29.06 (7:22 am)
" found, if you really want to be a challenge to such people, just smile a lot and be really pleasant. It's quite a challenge to them."
Too true... I love it when I can do it. -Other times I find myself helping them up off the floor (after I've knocked them down out of sheer annoyance.)
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
07.29.06 (2:54 pm)
Reply to: TheRockSays
Hey, I reach that exact point sometimes. I see a spiritual challenge, start to try to wax eloquent about it, and then realize I've yet to adequately deal with the matter myself.
I do very much appreciate your transparency.
