posted by:
69whisper (
reply)
post date:
02.26.07 (10:17 pm)
according to Islam, "God raised him up unto Himself". and Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus will return to earth at a time when Muslims will be in a dire need of a leader. Note that every Muslim needs to have firm belief in Prophet Jesus and without having this faith, a Muslim can not be a Muslim.
having said this, i have a firm belief that they can never find His bones on the planet earth. If they say so i firmly believe they are LIARS, no matter how logically and scientifically they try to prove it.
Hence there is no need to worry and need not shake your fatih.
posted by:
LadyG (
reply)
post date:
02.26.07 (11:47 pm)
It's all a big fat lie PD, We know thay they are not Jesus bones.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (2:09 am)
I wouldn't worry about it either way. It just plain doesn't matter.
What I always get a kick out of in these sorts of posts from you is how you pretend to be objective. "One positive, one negative..." Please.
As usual, I wish people would worry more about what Jesus said was important when he was alive as a human being instead of what happened after he died and the his biographers turned him into a magic bunny, but that'll never happen, so, what the heck. It makes for interesting T.V. I still maintain that if Jesus did come back and sat down in your church or just about any other, or showed up at a good sized meeting of Christians and explained, "Look, I don't care about all this other stuff, I want you to love one another. Get that right and we'll work on something new." Instead of being thanked or praised, he'd be torn limb from limb for shaking the comfortable little beliefs people have substituted for his message, which was exactly that.
So get this. Yesterday morning I had MSNBC on and I caught the tease about the upcoming press conference... I wasn't really paying attention, but it was presented as earth shattering and I perked up? Huh? Say what? Jesus?
After the commercial break, Jesus got second billing to a five minute Anna Nicole Smith bit. He did beat out the Scooter Libby trial for the number two spot though.
I still don't get your reply to my comment on the last post. Es'plain please.
posted by:
Kram1000 (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (3:52 am)
Even though I agree more with Surrogates point of view. I wouldn,t let some guy with a huge budget and some paid up archaeologists shake your point of view.
It is virtually impossible to ever lay a direct line back to Jesus bones. There is nothing left that anyone can say that he even touched. And you know how paranoid those forensic guys are about keeping a crime scene clean!
It would be a real buzz though if they were doing some genetic fingerprinting on the bones and the the sequence that came out could be translated into the first 3 chapters of the bible if you divided the resultant numbers by 666.
Now that would be spooky! It would make a great documentary!
And the last thing to remember Is that "The lord moves in Many ways"
Its not for man to second guess God and maybe it is time for the bones to be found.
Ah what do I Know. Just a thought.
posted by:
guerillafunk (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (6:20 am)
I don't even bother reading articles like these all the way through. Jesus ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
Amen.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (6:45 am)
Reply to: 69whisper
If we have so much in common with our beliefs, even if admittedly we make a sharp divergence when the Muslim believes Jesus to be prophet and the Christian believes Jesus to be Savior, then why are we at war with one another? With what you have briefly outlined, I could sit down with a person who holds strongly to those beliefs and have interesting and fruitful communion. In no way would I want to force conversion upon him, even if I believed he were in need of such.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (6:50 am)
Reply to: guerillafunk
I agree with your understanding, as you make reference to Acts 2:33 and Hebrews 7:25.
I do believe it is always beneficial to give a fair reading to views that differ from ours. For me, to do so strengthens my beliefs. There are answers to questions, right there in the scriptures as well as in reason and faith. If I am forced by a dissenter to search for those answers, I am enriched by the process.
posted by:
69whisper (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (7:11 am)
Infact i avoid discussing religion on any forum, i think its a personal matter and anyone's own dealing/relation with God.
After reding your post, i just wanted to add that you are not alone. there are more than 4 billion people on this planet who believe in Jesus and his prophethood.
Muslims do believe that He is The Savior, and will rule the world for many years and bring the world at peace.
i dont think its a war between religions or even people of various beliefs. History tells that it was always a war of economics and in that survival of the fittest. And so is the case now.
Unfortunately, religions have only been exploited by the few responsible.
I will surely like to discuss anything you like, and please do not think that i am trying to propagate anything here. For me every religion is respectable. If my parents had a different religion, i had believed the same religion and so do billions who die without converting to some other.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (7:14 am)
Reply to: LadyG
You are not one to mince words, I see!
It is most likely simply a ploy to make an interesting documentary and hopefully make money from a provoked public. Cameron is not an archaeologist or theologian; he's a film maker. He made a bundle of money on Titanic, and admitted he played loose with historical facts in order to make the movie most interesting. It would not be beyond him to do the same with a television documentary.
And, he is not doing a bad thing. The subject of the resurrection of Christ has been brought to the forefront. It can be discussed and considered by many who otherwise would scarcely give it a thought. That's good.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (7:20 am)
Reply to: Kram1000
So we can reduce the genetic fingerprinting of the bones of "Jesus", divide that number by 666, take the results and translate by use of a secretive code hidden for eons by European lodges- and, lo and behold, we will find that George Bush is actually the reincarnation of Christ! Makes sense to me.
My faith is in no danger from this enterprise. I'm simply postulating that, if indeed the body of Christ could be produced, it would indeed blow away the foundation of historic and biblical Christianity- the resurrection of Jesus. In my opinion it can never happen, because someone who is alive cannot leave a corpse behind.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (7:25 am)
Reply to: 69whisper
Indeed it is a personal matter. But, it is the most important matter of life and eternity, certainly I would think to be worthy of thoughtful and respectful dialog. I'll throw a few "verbal punches" along the way, concerning many subjects, but I seek to never belittle the honest and heartfelt opinions of another.
Thanks.
posted by:
FinalyFree (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (7:33 am)
You're exactly right, James Cameron is a film-maker. A film maker with a lot of money backing him thanks to finding that boat on the bottom of the ocean. I'm sure there's enough information out there to spin a good documentary no matter which side of the fence you're standing on, this is a good example. Those who choose to believe that Jesus did walk this Earth followed by being resurrected have choosen to take a walk of faith--something science or film making can't confirm or deny.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (7:36 am)
Reply to: surrogate
This is one post where there is no pretense of objectivity. Civility maybe, but not objectivity. Many matters of faith and religion can be interpreted differently, and really not make much of a difference concerning the broad scope of things. Not the resurrection of Christ. The validity of biblical, First Century Christian faith hinges upon the truth of the resurrection. Those early Christians shared the message with the world and willingly gave their lives, not for love, but for what they understood to be a risen Lord and Savior.
In my post, I briefly listed at least ten reasons why I believe the resurrection of Christ is essential. Certainly it gives validity to His other claims. Without it, He was either deluded or a liar. Most importantly, the resurrection provides proof of Christ's victory over sin and death. We all struggle with this heavy and innate monster of sin- of nature, action, inaction, etc. The resurrection shows me that Christ has defeated it. When a living Christ, as deity, enters into your life through faith, He becomes a constant source of strength to help with the struggle- and of course so much more. And, He proides the promise of a future resurrection for all who follow Him- the glorious understanding of a time to come when there will be no more worry with sin and death.
It's a great story. What transforms it from fairy tale to reality is the resurrection of Christ.
It matters.
posted by:
Kram1000 (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (7:38 am)
posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 02.27.07 (7:20 am)
Reply to: Kram1000
So we can reduce the genetic fingerprinting of the bones of "Jesus", divide that number by 666, take the results and translate by use of a secretive code hidden for eons by European lodges- and, lo and behold, we will find that George Bush is actually the reincarnation of Christ!
Makes sense to me.
That Doco has a much better story line than mine and more believable. It should rate well, and make a small fortune!LOL
posted by:
LadyG (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (8:48 am)
Reply to: PastorDave,
PD I see your point of view, that part of it is good.
posted by:
bawdy (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (11:34 am)
They're crazy. I bought Jesus' bones on Ebay five years ago.
posted by:
lorischuster (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (1:15 pm)
Thank you. Thank you. I do feel as if my head is going to explode. If James Cameron can shatter my faith then, I am pretty hopeless. the Pharisees feared that Jesus would be far more dangerous in death than he was when he was alive. That's why they posted guards at the tomb. They have been trying to disprove the resurrection for over 2,000 years--and now we're supposed to believe that the illustrious director of "Titanic" has figured it all out??? Thank you for your articulate points.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (1:20 pm)
"Certainly it gives validity to His other claims. Without it, He was either deluded or a liar."
How tiny your faith is. This is the dumbest statement I've ever read.
Evidently it was okay for Jesus to embellish and use parables to make his points, but it wasn't okay for those people who chronicled his life to pass on his story in ways that made his life sound all the more special. There's nothing wrong with them having done it. It makes perfect sense. For goodness sakes THAT'S why the stories aren't identical. Surely you understand that. Surely.
How can you not? Deliberate blinders? I guess.
Just because you choose to base your belief on the the hype about him instead of understanding and internalizing his message based on it's own merit, insinuating it has no validity WITHOUT the fairy tale magic is just plain goofy. Unbelievable. But it explains a lot too. Now I realize how dangerous it is to allow people who believe this sort of thing to make policy for the rest of us. From now on, I'll remember it.
I feel sorry for you Dave. How awful to have your whole life based on shutting off all but a tiny part of your brain. That's no leap of faith. That's giving your creator the finger.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (6:12 pm)
Reply to: bawdy
Yeah. I made a couple of bids, but when I discovered a fibula was missing, I withdrew my offer.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (6:16 pm)
Reply to: lorischuster
You're right; nothing new here.
I need Cameron and Company to explain to me how Jesus survived the crucifixion. Oh, that's right; it's a myth. I need for him to tell me why tens of thousands of First Century Christian were willing to die for a myth. Oh...they were deluded? I guess the old adage is true: there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (6:29 pm)
Reply to: surrogate
Those are some very hard words.
I think we have discussed previously this tendency of yours to claim intellectual superiority simply because someone else sees things differently.
What I have laid out in my replies is simple Christianity. I'm pretty sure it is an understanding of Jesus shared by hundreds of millions of believers throughout the centuries. It's more than a little surprising to me that you have spent most of your life on the periphery of the church, yet do not have a basic appreciation of the fundamentals of the gospel. Surely, even in more "progressive" churches, this message is at least considered: Jesus died for our sins, rose again to provide victory over sin and death, and offers both to us through faith. You may not agree with these points. But millions upon millions do. We're not all stupid just because we disagree with you.
Now, as far as equating my stupid understanding of Jesus with a dangerous conservative political standing- I would surely think an enlightened man like yourself would know that born-again Christians have varied political positions. There is not a lock-step political mentality.
Now, if you don't mind, I have a fat lip and bloody nose to tend to.
posted by:
TheRockSays (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (7:49 pm)
I, on the other hand, am bothered by this new would-be archeological evidence. No matter how hollow this publication is, the idea that there is proof of Jesus dying and staying dead will solidify in people's minds. That was the secret to McCarthy's success: he was able to make wild accusations, the denials for which took too long, so the effects of his grandstanding were already set in people's minds. The gay lobby also made a very hard case for the "gay gene". This fizzled out w/out much fanfare, but not after years of presuming that this would vidicate homosexuality as a natural, genetic phenomenon (like haemophilia). And it worked. The Raelians also gave this stratagem a try w/their human clone, but perhaps that didn't receive as much press as they would have liked outside of this region.
But what really bothers me is that not only is James Cameron the genius who directed Aliens on the budget of a middle-class single-parent family, but he's a Canadian! Now that *really* shatters my faith.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
02.27.07 (8:50 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
Millions believe lots of things Dave. Millions believe as I do too. Believing something doesn't make it any more or less true than it actually is. Tell me, are the Children of Ham still expected to be slaves for all time? Or has that little Southern Baptist Tenant been altered? Have the "beliefs" changed? Or have you folks decided to "believe" that you never even held those beliefs?
Oh, and, I'm not claiming any intellectual superiority whatsoever. I'm quite sure you're as bright as the next guy, which is all the more distressing. It's simply not the point. But, for instance, if you can't understand that loving other people means, at the very least, not allowing them to be killed as collateral damage (with YOUR reluctant approval) then you can preach about the glorious afterlife you anticipate all you like, but you'd better damn sure you understand you've deliberately missed the point of the most important thing Jesus had to say... oh, and HE was the one who said it was the most important thing... not me. Or have you re-prioritized things on his behalf?
I'm sure your daughter "believes" her puppy will be a life-long gentle addition to the family. Don't especially make it so, does it?
posted by:
69whisper (
reply)
post date:
03.01.07 (10:18 am)
Reply to: PastorDave
i am open to any questions you have. but i will like to use tmail for the subject please.
posted by:
heavyarms (
reply)
post date:
03.01.07 (12:42 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
"(Cameron) admitted he played loose with historical facts in order to make (Titanic) most interesting. It would not be beyond him to do the same with a television documentary."
Wait, what? You mean a filmmaker may misconstrue "facts" and portray lies as "truth" in order to make their "documentary" more interesting? Does that happen often?
"I need for him to tell me why tens of thousands of First Century Christian were willing to die for a myth."
I'd watch that argument, though. There are currently tens of thousands of 21st Century Muslims who are willing to die for a myth (or at least a huge perversion of faith). Humans have shown willingness to die for far, far less in the past.
posted by:
preceptlady (
reply)
post date:
03.10.07 (8:53 am)
I haven't visited here in months. Your grand daughter is adorable. Surrogate STILL makes me laugh at his non belief. Some new people around I see. You're still doing good work, keep it up. You know what needs to be said.
We both know He is not in the tomb and the end of the story!
God Bless you, PD...I'll check back soon.
Hugs,
Preceptlady
posted by:
Farfarello (
reply)
post date:
01.18.08 (1:06 pm)
Alot of people have been and are called Jesus..
They have alot of Jesuses in Spain because there it is a popular name :D
I wonder how they're going to prove it's THE Jesus..
DNA test from his tooth-brush? :/
