Shopping For A Car
Shopping for a car is quite an adventure. And it does not help to bring my wife along for the experience. Inevitably she tends to bond with the salesman. She finds every one to be endearing and cute, and does not want to do or say anything that might be hurtful to the “little guy”. I find it interesting how the salesman, no matter his previous persona, seems to morph into a strange reflection my wife and me. He finds out I’m a preacher, and lo and behold, he points out a Bible sitting on his sales desk. He discovers that Deb sells Health supplements, and we discover his avocation is physical fitness. So the next thirty minutes of conversation will be sprinkled with church talk and questions about vitamins, and of course the pursuit of The Sale.
I am interested in shopping, not buying, for the moment. At first it is awkward to tell the guy just how little car I am seeking, and just how little money I am willing to pay. He wants to sell a Lexus. I’m looking for the equivalent of an ’84 Yugo, windows optional. Literally I can see the drain of his demeanour when he realizes the commissions from our sale will not finance his next trip to Bermuda. It probably will not even pay to cut his Bermuda grass. Still, being a good sales soldier, he marches on.
He asks, “Sir, will you be making a trade-in?” I point out my ’94 Town-And-Country Wagon (this is the truth!). He asks why it is parked so awkwardly at the exit of the parking lot. I hesitate, and then decide again that I’m supposed to tell the truth. “It’s a good car,” I say. “It’s just missing a few things, like reverse.” When he stares at me, without a reply, I feel obligated to say something to keep the conversation moving. “You know, I’m finding that reverse is a highly optional gear. All you have to do is park on a hill, so you can roll the car back. Or, just have a couple of teenagers ride along with you. They can push you out of almost any predicament.” I see him mark off the trade-in option from his little notepad.
So now it is time to run a credit check. I actually have good credit. It is a redeeming quality at a time like this. The guy returns from checking, and is obviously re-energized. He would be glad to sell me any car on the lot! So, we head out to look at cars, and I quickly direct him past the new ones and toward the clunkers. Actually, I’m interested in the great deals advertised in the newspaper. And of course they are mostly gone, or look nothing like the printed descriptions. Except for one vehicle. It is a 4-year-old-car, and looks mighty fine to my wife and I. It is low mileage, and shines like new. I quickly discern why it has not previously sold. It is a stick-shift, and thus hard to sell. However, I like to drive a 5-speed.
We talk about payments. Now here is a matter that I think every person negotiating to buy a car should understand. The Doc Fee is nothing but a pure-profit-rip-off on the part of the dealership. And these guys wanted to add $589! My wife likes the cute little salesman who loves Jesus and vitamins and has two sweet kids and is just trying to make enough money to survive. So she is concerned when my eyes narrow, smile goes away, and I tell them, “I’ll not pay it. You will have to find a way to absorb this fee into the price of the car. And, the price is too high.” He grabs the paperwork to go back to talk with his Manager. I’m doubting there is even a manager in the back room. Rather likely, our salesman sits at a table with a cup of coffee, and then comes back and pretends to have negotiated on my behalf. Thus I am surprised when a jovial fellow in a tie comes to the table. Yes, he will take the deal!
So, we go out for a test drive. As soon as I pull from the parking spot, I see that the “check engine” light is on. I pull back in and return the keys. He says it is nothing. They will fix it after I buy it! Sure they will. And thus, another three hours of my life spent in the void otherwise known as car shopping.
We creep down the road headed for home. The worn shocks make the van bounce up and down, like a boat upon water. One makes a consistent banging noise from the back. I tell Deb not to worry. We consider buying gas, but do not spy a pull-through pump. And did I tell you the front end shimmies at speeds above 45 mph? But at least the “check engine” light is not glowing. I guess it cannot, since the fuse has been removed.
Anybody want to trade for a good van?
06.16.07 (8:22 pm) [
edit]
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
06.16.07 (6:29 pm)
Can't tell you how mny times I've watched guys have that very cup of coffee you spoke of when they're "checking with the manager," but, to be fair, it really depends on the place. Good move passing on the car with the check engine light on. If it was that easy a fix, it would have already been done, I'd think. Hell, be glad THEY didn't pull the fuse.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
06.16.07 (6:34 pm)
Oh, one more thing. I'd suggest you not let anyone else check your credit till you've completely made the deal and are satisfied. Each time your credit is run, it temporarily goes down a few points.
posted by:
auntconi (
reply)
post date:
06.16.07 (8:39 pm)
Hmmm, good points here, surr ~ will have to keep those in mind.
But I did get a chuckle PD, about your ride home from the dealership and the van bouncing up and down, doing the 'shimmies', etc.
This is no fun, and anyone who has been there knows exactly what you went thru ~ better you than me!
*giggle
posted by:
inkspector (
reply)
post date:
06.16.07 (10:10 pm)
Sounds like the vehicle needs a wheel alignment from the shimmy shimmy shake shake you describe.
posted by:
babe4jesus55 (
reply)
post date:
06.16.07 (11:01 pm)
An adventure indeed! Hope all goes better on the next shopping trip.
posted by:
mimi (
reply)
post date:
06.17.07 (4:57 am)
pdave, your storytelling skills are improving regularly! what a good job you did with this subject. excellent...
xoxox
posted by:
bawdy (
reply)
post date:
06.17.07 (11:55 am)
Very amusing post. You can always take your ministry big time and drive a caddy.
posted by:
Robin (
reply)
post date:
06.17.07 (10:43 pm)
Reply to: surrogate
That is not completely true. You can pull your credit a dozen times within a week or two and if the stated purpose is for the same type of loan, this will be consolidated and your credit will not drop any more than if the info was pulled only once.
posted by:
Robin (
reply)
post date:
06.17.07 (10:46 pm)
Pastor Dave, I agree, you are a very good storyteller. You definitely have a gift.There are a lot of deep insights in with the humor, too. I wish you lived near here so that we could visit your church.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
06.18.07 (4:44 am)
Reply to: bawdy
I've thought about it. So, here goes my first try:
Brother Bawdy, how's your faith? It's time for you to plant the seed of faith. If you have a small need, small seed. I can see you want to be blessed bigtime. So, you'll have to plant for a big harvest. Here's what you need to do. Send me a tax deductible gift for a new cadillac. It will be used only for ministry, and you will be blessed. For only the cost of a cadillac, your life will be blessed so much you can't stand it. And, I take Visa.
What do you think- like the new ministry?
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
06.18.07 (7:20 am)
Reply to: Robin
I've yet to have a fellow t-blogger to visit a church service, that I know. Sometimes a strange person will attend, and then leave before anyone has a chance to get to know him/her. Now you would not have been that lady in a trench coat, safety pins piercing her cheeks, who visited two Sundays ago? I did not think so.
posted by:
bawdy (
reply)
post date:
06.18.07 (11:19 am)
Reply to: PastorDave
If my credit rating was better, you'd be stylin' in
no time!
posted by:
almsthvn (
reply)
post date:
06.18.07 (6:30 pm)
i LOVE car shopping! Let me go! Let me go!
I check blue book values, all sorts of stuff!
pick me! pick me!!
posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
06.19.07 (6:24 am)
good job not paying the "doc fee". this is standard dealership business practice these days and you are exactly correct that the "doc fee" is basically meant to ADD to administrative cost the dealer incurs to sell you the car directly to the price of the car instead of having their admin costs come out of their PROFIT like any other business in the free world. Can you imagine going into into the clothing store to buy a $25 sweater and then get charged $30 because a $5 documentation/administration fee has been added?
I was once the Internet Manager for a mega-dealer group with 12 dealerships. This was a very good ownership group, but, I can tell you lots about the industry practices themselves that would make your head spin! lol!
Good luck with the search for a new car!
Kurt
posted by:
heavyarms (
reply)
post date:
06.19.07 (8:28 am)
I know this is long, but it's per PastorDave's request.
I bought my new (to me) car a year ago. After I finally made up my mind what kind of car I wanted (a 2003 Mitsubishi Galant), I started searching in earnest around the area. I finally found one to my liking, and after running a vehicle report on CARFAX (Tip No. 1, always run a vehicle history report at CARFAX before purchasing a used car. You will need the VIN) and headed to the dealership around 8pm on a Saturday (Tip No. 2, always go to the dealership late at night and near the end of the week. They'll be eager to get a deal, but they'll also be eager to get you out the door so they can go home and enjoy their one day off.)
I had already made up my mind the maximum amount I was going to pay, based on the Kelley Blue Book suggested sale price (Tip No. 3, ALWAYS look up the MSRP on a new car or resale value on a used car). For this particular car, the KBB was $9995, I was not willing to take on a car note of more than $200/month. I had gotten approval for a car loan already (Tip No. 4, if you're buying a USED car, always get pre-approved for a loan, which you can easily do online. You'll more than likely get a better interest rate than from the dealer, and sometimes the dealer will even try to beat that rate to get your business.) Because I got pre-approved, I only had a certain amount that I could spend, and could not go over that amount.
There were two similar cars on the lot, the '03 that I wanted with 75K miles, and they were asking $10995, and an '02 with 50K, for which they were asking 9,995. I told them I liked the '03, but that they were asking too much. I asked them why the '03 cost more than the '02, to which they replied 'Its a newer vehicle'. To this, I replied, 'Yes, but it also has more miles on it.) I was saying this kind of 'That '03 is OKAY, but not anything special.' (Tip no. 5, NEVER act like you want to buy the car, even if you do. You're just looking all the way up until YOU decide to buy the car.)
After various bandying about and discussions, the salesman finally came down to the inevitable question 'What can I do to put you in this car TODAY?' 'Well, honestly, it would take a good deal. I can't really afford anything more than about $180 a month.' (Tip no. 6, always low ball your amount, don't give them exactly what you're willing to spend, because they'll try to get more than that.) 'Since I got pre-approved, I only have a certain amount I can spend, anything over that, and I have to get approved again.' That was a mistake, because the salesman said, 'Well, why don't you just go ahead and make out the check for the amount you're approved, and we can make a deal.' That's where I came in with my 'I only want to spend about $180/month, and that limits the amount I can spend on the car.'
'Well, how about a trade-in. Maybe we could take that in to the equation.' I had a 92 Chevy Corsica with no air (the compressor was broken), no heat (the Exchanger started leaking coolant, so I had that bypassed), and the rear brakes were grabbing. 'No, I don't have a trade in.' (Tip no. 7, NEVER bring a trade-in on a used car. There are three things car dealers try to get you on 1) Sticker price, 2) Financing, 3) Trade-in value. Want a good trade-in? You'll get it, but they'll up your sticker price. Want a lower the APR? They'll work with you, but they won't give you as much for the trade-in.
'Why don't you let me see your car and we'll see if we can work something on the trade-in?' 'Okay, but I'm not planning on trading it in unless its a really good price.' 'Can I have your keys?' 'It's unlocked.' (Tip no. 8 NEVER give them the keys to your car, they might hold them and not give them back to you to keep you there.)
She came back. 'Boy you were right, that's not much of a car.' 'Now you know why I'm looking for another one.' 'I don't think I can give you much on a trade-in.' 'I don't want a trade-in. My loan is pre-approved. All I need from you is a sticker price, and if that works out to a good monthly payment for me, I'll think about it.' (Tip No. 9 NEVER tell them what it would take for you to buy it. You ALWAYS have to think about it.) 'Let me go talk to my manager and see what we can do.' (They ALWAYS have to go talk to their manager, let them, its all part of the game.)
She came back. 'Okay, Mr. Heavyarms, how about this?) We're want $10995 for the car. How about if we give you $1000 for your trade-in. You could give us a $500 down payment, and that would get you close to the monthly payment you want.' ($1000 for my old car was a steal. It wasn't worth anything. The KBB on it was $500, literally) That bumped me down to $9995, about $500 over what I was willing to spend.
'I'm already pre-approved for my loan, so I'm not going to give you a down payment. Look, for me to get that $180 a month car note on my loan, I'd only be able to spend about $8,000.'
'Let me go talk to my manager. I'll be right back.' Around this time, it was 10pm. I made sure to be 'on the phone with my wife' when the salesman came back to her office. 'Yeah. The car's OKAY, it's got a few scratches on it. 75,000 miles. Yeah I know, that's a lot, I'd like it to have less. Ok, she's back. Let me go, dear.'
'Mr. Heavyarms, we just can't get down to that number.' 'Okay, well, thanks for trying.' (Tip no. 10. ALWAYS be ready to walk away without a car. You NEVER have to walk away with a new car, you can ALWAYS come back. That is the attitude you need to have. If you go in with the attitude that you MUST have that car, you're going to lose this game.) 'Wait, here's what we can do. He's willing to come down to $10K for the car. ($1,995 on the sticker price!). He'll give you $1,000 for your trade-in, that makes the price $9,000. How does that sound?'
I was ecstatic. I was literally high. They came down almost $2,000 on the price, and on top of that they were willing to give me ANOTHER $1,000 for a car that, as far as I was concerned, I was going to have to donate to charity or pay someone to come haul away. 'Let me go call my wife.' Let her sweat it out a few minutes. I came back, 'Just to clarify, the price is going to be $9,000 with the trade-in. That is going to be INCLUSIVE, dealer-prep, inspection, tax,title and license, and any other little fee and scheme you can dream up?' 'Well, we normally have the buyer pay for the title and licensing fee.' 'Oh, okay. well thanks, then.' I moved to leave. 'Wait, Mr. Heavyarms.' 'Yeah, go talk to the manager.'
She came back 'Okay, he's willing to include all the fees except for the tax, we can't include that in the price.' (I knew that and was expecting to pay the tax out of my pocket. I COULD have argued that they make the price whatever it needed to be so that it would cost me $9,000 total, but hell, I was starting to feel bad for her.) I mulled it for a minute, then smiled and said 'I'll take it.'
On top of that, they asked if they could talk to me about financing, I told them I was already approved. They asked if they could try and beat the APR I had, I said 'Sure, go ahead.' I ended up getting a better financing deal through the dealer and went used that instead.
It's a game to them. Sometimes they lose, most of the time they win. Check out carbuyingtips (dot) com for instructions on how to play.
posted by:
auntconi (
reply)
post date:
06.19.07 (2:08 pm)
Wow, Heavyarms ~ I'll look you up when I buy my next used car ~ and you can bank that!
*giggle
posted by:
heavyarms (
reply)
post date:
06.21.07 (8:25 am)
Reply to: auntconi
Just let me know.
posted by:
drforbush (
reply)
post date:
06.21.07 (11:25 am)
Hey Dave,
Our older car is just about to pass the 300K mile mark. My wife calls her "old paint" or "chitty." We gradually began dealing with few amenities, like air-conditioning, but the car still gets us around town. When the "check-engine light" came on two weeks ago I was thinking about the option to turn the car in and get a new one. But, we took the car to the mechanic who determined the problem to be a dying alternator. This means that the car wasn't able to charge the battery at the optimal efficiency. It needed to be replaced, but they didn't have one in stock. So, I drove the car off with the "check engine light" still glowing.
Well, as I started driving home that evening my lights began to dim, and dim, and dim until the "check battery light" came on. So, I turned around, dropped the car off at the mechanic’s place, and called my wife to come and get me.
The funny thing about this is that the “idiot lights” actually worked. That was the first time in my thirty-some years of driving where the idiot light saved me from being stranded on the road. In the past the car would have been more likely to have just died without giving up its secrets.
My point here is that the people at the dealer could easily have taken the car and plugged it into the computer and known what the “check engine light” meant. It is likely that the problem was to expensive to fix, otherwise they would have done it before they tried to sell it. Good choice in not buying it.
posted by:
qjhwqjafmk (
reply)
post date:
06.23.07 (11:17 pm)
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