posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
12.27.07 (9:17 pm)
Simple solution: move your parsonage (do you call it that?) a block or so from the church and off the main road.
See? Problem solved. Then, at least, questionably needy folks might be forced to come around during normal business hours...
No?
But... But...
posted by:
LadyG (
reply)
post date:
12.28.07 (2:39 am)
He probably won't come again PD but there will be countless others. you will get another chance, Just remember that we sometimes have angels in our midst.
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
12.28.07 (6:17 am)
one time, I was outside the church doing yard work. a car drove up, and nicely dressed elderly black man got out. although we are a very northern town, there aren't any black people who chose to live here. so he did sort of stick out. there was a woman in the car as well, who did not get out. he asked if the pastor was available. i said no, but i was. he asked for gas money to return home, he said they had been up here for a regional church meeting and he was a pastor and got cut short with money.
knowing it was a scam, i still reached into my pocket and pulled out a 50. don't know why, and knew i was throwing money away. there is a large gambling establishment about 5 miles down the road. i figured that it was entirely possible that he was heading there.
i wasted 50 bucks i didn't have i suppose. i will never know. he, of course, took the church address down and promised faithfully to mail the money back. he never did.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
12.28.07 (6:25 am)
Reply to: surrogate
Most churches of my denomination are doing away with parsonages, which is a good thing. The problem in this area is that a housing allowance would be financially prohibitive.
I could put a sign on the door: "Need Financial Assistance? The Presbyterian Church is located at 437 Main Street. Ask for Pastor Phil."
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
12.28.07 (6:29 am)
Reply to: LadyG
"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." - Hebrews 13:2. I think the reference is to angels hosted by Abraham and Lot in the book of Genesis. And, as Christians, we believe all persons are stamped with the divine image, and thus are worthy of respect. Thanks for the reminder.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
12.28.07 (6:38 am)
Reply to: fractalmom
You did such because you have a heart that is kind, a reflection of the presence of God. You did well. The challenge comes along when about a dozen or so persons, similar to him, stop by and make the same request. It is easy to become hardened and, for me, treat them with disrespect. I think it is wise to not give money. Sometimes I break this rule, and it usually happens when my heart gets soft and so does my head. Often I'll have the person follow me to the gas station. Or, the supermarket. Or, if they bring me a bill, I'll try to pay it. The church entrust me with the funds, and using them judiciously is a matter of proper stewardship.
Who knows... the guy may have hit the jackpot at the casino. He built a big church and now has a television ministry? All because of your $50!
posted by:
auntconi (
reply)
post date:
12.29.07 (12:20 am)
When I worked as a church secretary I was surprised how often people came to the church asking for 'money' for 'various and sundry reasons' ~ I totally had no idea that was done as often as it was. We were in a somewhat rural area and how these people found themselves at our remote area in such 'distress' was always a question I couldn't completely understand. Then one day the same person returned to the church with the same story of 'just passing by' and found themselves in trouble and could he have some money. He looked at me hesitantly when he walked into the office, but didn't leave before asking for help. I do believe he recognized me from when he was in the office a few weeks earlier. When I asked him to wait while I called for the pastor, he rather quickly left the office as I reached for the phone.
Hmmm!!!
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
12.29.07 (1:02 pm)
Reply to: auntconi
Hopefully your church did not leave it up to the poor secretary to take care of transients! It is a sad life for these people. I remind myself that not every needful person is a self-made bum. Most are. But, the exact line of demarcation is not my job. I'll discern, and if there is a question, I usually seek to err on the side of grace.
Church secretary? We need a pianist and organist. Interested?
posted by:
auntconi (
reply)
post date:
12.29.07 (2:29 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
No, it was not up to the secretary to take care of the transients. I was calling the pastor who was in the next room, but in this case as I picked up the phone to dial for the pastor, the 'person in need' chose to leave the my office ~ thus telling us that he wasn't really legit in his need. He did realize that he had sought assistance from this church rather recently and he chose to seek assistance elsewhere. His line was "I'm passing thru town and need some assistance to get home."
Pianist/organist? Um, I don't play piano, but perhaps you might ask surrogate ~ seems he is talented in the piano/organ/music field ~ or maybe it is his family! Or perhaps he could ask his friend!
posted by:
spook102956 (
reply)
post date:
12.30.07 (4:38 pm)
When I think of people asking for help/money, I always remember something my pastor said. He said he would rather err on the side of helping someone who doesn't really need it, than not helping someone who does. He says if he's in doubt whether to help someone or not, remembering that helps him decide.
posted by:
Robin (
reply)
post date:
12.30.07 (11:45 pm)
"I am passing through/my car broke down and need gas money/car repairs to get home" or some variation is the #1 story you get. It is always bunk.
My old church was a few hundred people in an old building in a very bad neighborhood a block from a MAJOR theme park in Florida. One Sunday WHILE ON THE WAY INTO CHURCH in the parking lot, a bum approached my husband and I and our children with this sob story for the millionth time. We were always super broke in those days. We lived in a horrible apartment and drove a crummy car and while we would buy food for someone and often did, we were not going to give this guy any cash just then. He stopped in his tracks and cursed out my husband and threatened him, stating that we were "not very christian". GREEEEEAAAAAAAAT. So, we head into church. We come out an hour or so later and this idiot had stolen the two back wheels and tires off our car. This mangy moron was kind enough to lay the axles in the hubcaps so they weren't ground into the dirt. I guess that was our payment for being poor and not very christian.
A few years later my husband died. At the service, to illustrate my husband's stable, forgiving and kind nature the pastor brought up this incident and reminded us all what my husband's response had been at the time. While I had wanted to hunt this useless pile of waste down and probably cut his heart out, my husband had just said, "Well, he must have needed them worse than we did," and then he and pastor went to a used shop and got two used wheels and tires and put them on. Somehow feeling responsible, when the pastor wanted to pay or at least help out, my husband would not let him. Everyone at the memorial thought this was really funny and in fact it was a great summation of my husband's character.
Over the years myself as a deacon and having poured myself out as a minister to my family, as well as migrant workers, on the mission field and to just plain church people as well as the unsaved, I have become really cynical about people, especially Christians. Yes, I know that Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven, blah blah blah. But I am sorry, Christians are often actually worse than the unsaved. My mom used to have a Christian bookstore and she was robbed blind by shoplifting Christians and had to close.
I am tired of having my kids bikes stolen multiple time, even when they are chained to a tree (I don't know who did this). I am tired of being attacked in walmart in the aisle by people who then loudly try to curse me in the name of the lord and claim they are christians ( kind of like your experience in the hospital lot, except I was just standing there with my daughter and I didn't move fast enough so a drunk mexican woman practically knifed me in the aisle then told me that God was on their side and next time I didn't move the would "do what they had to do", scaring my daughter). I am tired of "Christian" neighbors who let their dog crap in my yard every day and when I ask politely that they not do so, they attack me. I am tired of gossiping Christians. And christians that lie, steal and cheat their church family members and church itself. I am tired of leaving a church I had attended for 17 years due to ecclesiastical and financial abuse as a widow and not having one single person ever call me again, proving that after all that time I meant nothing to those people unless i was a tithing deacon and unquestioningly abject servant who never questioned their sin. As you might can tell, I am tired of really living. Life is just too hard as a widow with children in this world. I never ask for or need financial help but any other type of care or consideration for at least my children would be nice on occasion, but it NEVER HAPPENS. I love the Lord but I really don't like most of his people. The church doesn't really practice true religion anymore. Everyone is too busy going to starbucks and getting electronic doodads from the proceeds of their second subprime mortgage to care about anyone but themselves and their own immediate family members to care about broken hearted people.
