posted by:
IntricateGirl (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (9:33 am)
Hebrews 11:1
I know I've spoken on your blog before about leaving the church. Possibly the most significant reason I did is because my pastors always seemed to focus on becoming saved, but not what happens once you have been. I have, as one of my pastors put it, my "fire insurance". But I am not sustained by that. It doesn't feed my soul. I heard most of my pastors talk about their personal relationship with Christ, but none TAUGHT me how to seek my own relationship with him. So when other religions came along, I was all too eager to find out what sustained them. In the end, I rejected what they said too, because I came to realize it is a PERSONAL relationship. Just as I am the same person, but don't have the same relationship with my husband as I do with my children or my mother.
So I am not troubled by the non-mention of Jesus. I think there is enormous merit to both the believer and non-believer in this sermon. Wright said, "The real lesson Hannah gives us from this chapter—the most important word God would have us hear—is how to hope when the love of God is not plainly evident. It's easy to hope when there are evidences all around of how good God is. But to have the audacity to hope when that love is not evident..."
Faith is the substance of things hoped for. It's the end of the equation after all the variables have been considered.
(And I promise, one of these days I'll restrict my comments to a single, short sentence.)
posted by:
FinalyFree (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (10:06 am)
For a week or so I've been meaning to do a little investigating on Rev. Wright but my schedule has not allowed it--you know it's that crazy 'Easter' season in the church! I did however check out the "church" some months back after getting a Obama-bashing email. My personal jury is still out on what I read. Anyhoo I like your synopsis of his sermon and intend on making the time to check it out!
posted by:
nightbreed (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (2:10 pm)
I have no clue as to what to say... I am out of my league on this one ~smiles shyly~
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (5:41 pm)
Reply to: IntricateGirl
Amen, Sister!
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (5:41 pm)
Reply to: IntricateGirl
Amen, Sister!
posted by:
nightbreed (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (6:03 pm)
Reply to: docsavage
"This America which denies the hand-up of an adequate education to poor black children"
what about the white children??? why is everything always black black black?? what about the irish americans whose parents were indentured servants (nice word for slaves).. you never hear about them and you never hear about the white kids in america who are in need... try coming to the appalachian mountains and looking around... their parents are good enough to die in coal mines but not to be mentioned???
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (6:05 pm)
Reply to: nightbreed
sure, them, too! but that line was in direct response to the ferraro accusation that barack wouldn't be "in this position (leading the nomination race) if were NOT black".
also, don't forget about the "bronze children"!
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (6:06 pm)
Reply to: nightbreed
doc savage was raised by wolves so what about the children being raised by wolves in dens across America?
posted by:
LadyG (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (6:06 pm)
Amen Doc Savage.
posted by:
nightbreed (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (6:06 pm)
Reply to: docsavage
yes the hispanic children need help as well
posted by:
nightbreed (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (6:07 pm)
Reply to: docsavage
all the children..not just one race...
posted by:
nightbreed (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (6:10 pm)
Reply to: docsavage
now stop it... i cant watch ghost hunters if you keep replying to me..ugh!!!
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (6:26 pm)
Reply to: IntricateGirl
Multi-layered reply, as usual! The church as I understand it is so much more than a place to receive instruction. That's important. But it is every bit as important as a place of fellowship, service, ministry, worship, encouragement, admonition, etc. In my opinion, it is very much the responsibility of the individual seeker to find nourishment for himself. As Jesus said in the beatitudes, "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled."
Now, concerning the absence of the mention of Jesus in the sermon- This is a Christian church. It's name includes Church of Christ.It's not just a gathering of religious people, or people with a social agenda. It is a Christian gathering. And, last I understood, Christ is the central focus of Christianity. If I want anything else, I would go somewhere else. Church needs to be Christ centered. And, I think, this absence of a focus upon Christ is symptomatic of so much that is wrong with so many of our churches of today.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (6:28 pm)
Reply to: nightbreed
Out of your league? You come across as insightful and wise, at least to me. Still, if you insist upon standing there silently and smiling, we will allow you to stay. You've a nice smile!
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (6:32 pm)
Reply to: LadyG
I'm sorry, but I did not read the substance of his comments. Perhaps there was merit as a whole. But, I do not want such language used around here. This is an extension of my home. Of my self. In my opinion, anyone choosing deliberately to so vilely insult the faith and deity of another does not deserve an amen.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (6:34 pm)
Reply to: FinalyFree
You read unsolicited political e-mails? Use the delete button- you'll be much happier.
posted by:
nightbreed (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (8:09 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
aww shucks... lol
i may be pagan.. but one thing i have not changed from my days of being a baptist..is that you NEVER, EVER say the Lords name in vain. In other words I don't believe in saying "gd".
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (8:52 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
Lady G, the fact is that I didn't write a single word of profanity nor did I blaspheme your God's name. I'm pretty surprised that Dave would take that approach to my comments. I used the phrase "God damn America" in the same context and in the same manner used by Rev. Wright in the sermon Pastor Dave used as his topic in the post.
The phrase is the same as saying any of the following:
*God damn oppression!
*God damn the forces of evil!
*God damn those who sexually abuse children!
Now, it would be fair if someone's patriotism or politics were offended by the phrase "God damn America", but there's no intellectually honest way to construe that phrase as taking the God's name in vein. The 3rd Commandment excuse is false on the face of it because the 3rd Commandment had absolutely NOTHING to do with profanity and I suspect Dave actually knows that -- at least I'm not sure how you get through Bible College without learning the historical context for the 3rd Commandment.
Hey, its Dave's blog and he can do what he wants. If really wanted a serious discussion of the topic HE PICKED -- then he'd never have deleted my completely sincere attempt to engage that debate at a deep and meaningful level.
Oh well, who has time for intellectual integrity when there's an opportunity to needlessly grand-stand?
posted by:
IntricateGirl (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (9:17 pm)
Perhaps so. But God was mentioned frequently throughout the sermon, so it truly seems we are discussing how often Jesus is mentioned. And you said that as an evangelical preacher, you are disturbed by his name missing. Fair enough. I am certainly in no position to demand that the Christian church bend itself to my will. :)
Personally, I do not know anything of Trinity United's "instruction, fellowship, service, ministry, worship, or encouragement," and I only have a hint at it's admonition. But Jesus said precious few words on even fewer subjects, and I find that many times, it's a stretch to say that Jesus approves or disapproves of most of the topics preached in His name. I am certainly not saying that there's anything wrong with evangelicalism. But Trinity United seems to be a thriving church, and I will leave it to God to determine whether they mentioned his name enough times.
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.19.08 (10:04 pm)
You said:
"Particularly I was interested in finding the context of the quotations where he called for God’s damnation of America with a vulgarity unfit for any pulpit of which surely most of us would be associated, and more than insinuated that America was to blame for the awful attacks of 9/11."
You're making a completely false, dishonest and irresponsible charge here against Rev. Wright, who by all accounts is a passionate follower of Christ, just not one that makes piddling white preachers with mediocre half-empty suburban churches very comfortable.
Your charge of "vulgarity" is so blatantly and demonstrably false that it begs whether the maker of the charge himself isn't driven by some amount lingering cultural racism that would influence such an intellectually dishonest rendering of the statement given the clear context of Rev. Wright's remarks.
You might rightly call Wright's "God damn America" unpatriotic or offensive to you on purely political grounds, but, you simply can't make the chage of "vulgarity". You also can't trot out the 3rd Commandment, either.
The mystery here is that Pastor Dave is much smarter than to go there with this topic. It took me only about 5 minutes to explain to my teenage children the difference between the vulgar use of "God-damn-it" or its many popular variants and the calculated oratorical use of "God damn America" in a sermon about the history of injustice in our country in regard to black people. Anyone denying the abject horror of the black experience in this country for most of our country's young histor is tantamount to being a Holocaust deny-er. Doing so isn't just latent racism, it is blatant racism.
Pastor Dave, does your God damn racism? Does your God damn treating one race as inherently superior to another? Does God damn the silence of the majority race when they are witness to prejudice or the maybe just the occassional "nigger joke"?
Are you going to get offended by the word "nigger" being used on your blog as well in this adult discussion. Do you know where I first heard the word "nigger"? It was at a Baptist Church sponsored basketball game in 1974. I was 8 years old. The man who used the term multiple times was a Deacon in my church. Do you think God damns a white Baptist Deacon use of the word "nigger"?
So, the Reverend Wright believes America has brought much of the world's hatred upon itself because of the continued racist slant of our foriegn policy? If you assume for a moment that he's right, wouldn't he be quite correct to state that God damns those who perpetuate those policies of institutionalized racism and bigotry?
C'mon, Dave! You can disagree with the Reverend Wright for his political statements and you can even take exception to his interpretation of the Gospels. My reading of them puts his brand of fighting for justice against the oppressive power of the world's most powerful government to be a lot closer to the true Spirit of Christ, who himself had a few run-ins with the America of his day, the Roman Empire.
So, would you find it queer if you found that Jesus had said, "May God damn the Roman Empire!"
Of course, the statement "God damn the Roman Empire and their Jewish co-conspirators" is implied in again and again in the life of Jesus as recorded in your Gospels.
I bet you any amount of money that there's still some white people attending your church and using the word "nigger" in reference to black people. Before you judge the Reverend Wright's discipleship or fitness for the pulpit, why don't preach a few direct and unapologetic sermons on the evil of racism in white suburban culture first? When you are looking for a new job, you might have a new appreciation for the realities in America that God just might damn if asked really nicely without using much vulgarity!
posted by:
IntricateGirl (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (5:21 am)
Perhaps so. But God was mentioned frequently throughout the sermon, so it truly seems we are discussing how often Jesus is mentioned. And you said that as an evangelical preacher, you are disturbed by his name missing. Fair enough. I am certainly in no position to demand that the Christian church bend itself to my will. :)
Personally, I do not know anything of Trinity United's "instruction, fellowship, service, ministry, worship, or encouragement," and I only have a hint at it's admonition. But Jesus said precious few words on even fewer subjects, and I find that many times, it's a stretch to say that Jesus approves or disapproves of most of the topics preached in His name. I am certainly not saying that there's anything wrong with evangelicalism. But Trinity United seems to be a thriving church, and I will leave it to God to determine whether they mentioned his name enough times.
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (6:07 am)
sheesh. i had to wait two days to comment on this one. nice selection PD !!
Not wanting to be influenced by the media, I had already been searching for sermons by the Rev Wright.
And, I am not going to pay to view them.
several things pop into my mind. none of this will be coherently organized because it's morning and i tend to ramble in the morning.
the sermon Audacity of Hope is a good one. Great one actually. Even without the mention of Jesus.
Rev Wright subscribes more to the religion of 'victimology' than he does to the religion of Jesus the Christ, the living Son of God.
Adolph Hitler gave some good speeches too. They were well written, made a lot of sense, and played well to the public. That's how he got into power.
Anyone can make a good speech or a good sermon. Anyone with some personality and education, and the training. As you said, verbal inflections, empathy, etc can turn a dry subject into a living and vibrant one. These are the things that set good teachers apart, good pastors apart, good politicians apart.
The danger, I think, is in the sermons that are given every 'other' Sunday.
I do think, from my reading, that Rev Wright subscribes to victimology and will not be able to move past his anger and angst, until such time as he removes himself from the ranks of "oh, it's not OUR fault, it's the fault of the system that tied us down and made us what we are today."
Bullshit. there are oppressed white people, oppressed people of Jewish descent, oppressed people of hispanic descent, oppressed black people, oppressed children, oppressed asiatic persons, and I am tired of hearing how fucking oppressed everyone is. What is it that makes a black person who was raised in a single parent home better than me, who was ignored by my mother, sexually and physically abused by my father, left home at age 13, went on to college and a graduate degree, then raised five children to not be victims (okay, one flop there...) and am now raising my two grandchildren??
Because, I don't subscribe to victimology. I am what I made of myself with the talents and abilities given to me by either genetics or God, whichever you believe. I was a clean slate and wrote my own destiny upon that slate. I could have sat there and said..Oh, poor me!! But I didn't. And I don't have time for those who do.
To use that particular rhetoric as a basis for most of his sermons, to say that the American government has placed black people so that they cannot advance is total and complete victimology.
In today's America, even with all the myriad problems we as a society face, any person with half a brain and the drive, can lift themselves out of oppression. A good examples is Justice Clarence Thomas. I find myself wondering what he would say regarding the Rev Wright?
The bottom line is that Rev Wright is using politically charged rhetoric in his sermons, urging his congregation to stay in the religion of victimology. Don't blame yourself for where you are, blame America. Don't blame yourself for not trying to move on, blame the white person. Don't blame yourself for not getting an education, blame the American educational system that keeps black children stupid.
What a load of shit. Blame the black mothers and fathers who perpetrate this hogwash and tell their children, oh no, it can't be you. It's the white man keeping us down. It's your own stupidity keeping you down. Wake up and grow up.
The only thing keeping anyone down anymore is their stupid belief that it is 'Someone else's fault'.
as always, just my humble (or not humble) opinion.
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (6:11 am)
oh. and before i get jumped on by racist commentors, i was raised in a primarily black community, with mostly black friends, and many black role models. and, the people I respected most in my childhood, MY role models were strong black women who made their children sit up and take notice, sit up and take responsibility and do something with their lives.
posted by:
squirrelzone (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (6:16 am)
Reply to: fractalmom
Now that gets an amen sister. And I'm being totally honest too, well said.
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (8:21 am)
Reply to: fractalmom
You said:
"Rev Wright subscribes more to the religion of 'victimology' than he does to the religion of Jesus the Christ, the living Son of God."
What crapola! "Victimology"? If anyone's philosophy and attitude smack of Hitler, it your comments and the Reverend Wright's sermons that could be compared to the psychological dynamics of Nazism. Just simply substitute "Jew" for for "black" in your comments and the Nazi-ish flavor is obvious.
Then, you commit the classic white racist apology with your "raised in a black community, with mostly black friends" meaningless defense. Holy Toledo, another white person whose moral purity is proven by the fact they know some black people! lol!
When did the Reverend Jeremiah Wright suggest that black people weren't responsible for their own decisions or for their own families or for acting rationally in the world that exists while calling for justice in an unjust world, mercy in and merciless world and charity in an uncharitable world?
I guess Jesus was preaching "victimology" too when he preached "blessed are the poor of spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven" and "blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"?
Or, this little piece of "victimology" for Jesus from Luke 18:22
***22 And when Jesus heard it, he said to him, "One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the *poor*, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."***
No country that has ever existed deserves to be preached against from Christian pulpit any more than the United States of America. The shame of America is that she hides behind the cloak her Constitution and her self-righteous international arrogance and you little brown shirts just march right along even to the point of blaming the victims of America's shameful and disgusting history from the savage rape of her native people's, the American Indians, to the brutal history of slavery, oppression and de facto economic Nazism.
Of course, there are Nazi's and then there are the even more pathetic -- the Nazi sympathizers who were mostly otherwise benign middle housewives who sat by self-satisfied and told themselves that those Jews did this to themselves and they are just getting what is coming to them!
Then you add the ultimate arrogant insult of all-time when you claim that lifting yourself out of poverty in America as a black person is a simple matter of applying oneself:
"In today's America, even with all the myriad problems we as a society face, any person with half a brain and the drive, can lift themselves out of oppression."
What a fictitious load of crap and one very easy to prove false using simple statistics! I know my Capitalist economics better than you know black people and I can tell you unequivocally that not a single great Capitalist economist would agree with your statement. They would say that open and free markets are the best chance for all groups to have their best opportunity to prosper, but, they would never suggest anything so callously stupid as "anyone with half a brain" can prosper in America. Your either an uninformed idiot when it comes to economics or you really are a racist -- either way your comments are smarmy, self-serving and just plain wrong on the facts!
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (8:25 am)
I wish there were a Righteous God that brought His wrath down upon unrighteous and inequity, because America would be destroyed by that God in short order if there were. A righteous God would hate America more than any of the other powers because we are the country that claims His sanction for our evil and His purposes for our injustice.
America is the Great Whore and the Great Hypocrit of current times and she will surely fall to ruin. In fact, the fall is already well underway!
posted by:
nightbreed (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (9:38 am)
Reply to: fractalmom
oh my... please run for president..seriously... you said what i was wanting to but i couldnt get the words together...
either president or some lucky persons life coach...
posted by:
nightbreed (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (9:42 am)
Reply to: docsavage
if you don't like it here and America is such a whore (your word not mine) then get the frill out or shut up and do something about it...
Thank the morons that voted for bush for a second term...
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (9:47 am)
Reply to: docsavage
oh good God. Blow me !!
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (10:19 am)
Reply to: docsavage
you said "When did the Reverend Jeremiah Wright suggest that black people weren't responsible for their own decisions or for their own families or for acting rationally in the world that exists while calling for justice in an unjust world, mercy in and merciless world and charity in an uncharitable world?"
um. you obviously haven't read any of his other sermons or pieces??? Because that is his primary message. That black people are oppressed by the United States of America and that none of it is their own faults.
Let me know when you have taken the time to research this subject. Until then...
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (12:39 pm)
I am SOOoooo glad I didn't weigh in on this. I'd written up a comment and everything and decided discretion was the better part of valor. I will say this, though I don't think America "deserved" to be attacked on 9-11, to say it was utterly unprovoked (in the eyes of those who attacked) is deliberately stork-like to anyone who cares about understanding other cultures and religions. I also don't think the government invented AIDS to off black folks, but I sure understand some of them - who KNOW about Tuskegee, as one tiny for-instance - finding it to be plausible is certainly understandable.
I don't agree with him, but I don't write off everything he says as the ravings of a madman either. But then, I'm one of those crazies who believes in loving one's country as an adult loves a child, as opposed to the way a toddler loves his parents the way so many in this country seem to. Ya know, the "How dare you QUESTION America?" crowd - like the idiots who STILL think going to war with Iraq has done anything more than make the world more dangerous for generations to come. Believing this war has been a good thing is certainly no crazier than some of the things the good reverend has said, and at least he didn't kill anyone to make his beliefs policy for others to suffer...
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (3:25 pm)
Reply to: fractalmom
Um... no fractalmom... that ISN'T his message.
Nice try though. His message is that there HAS been and IS oppression and that what his people need to do is rise above it. I've never heard him say that "none of it is their fault." But I'm sure believing that must make it easier for you to jump on the guy. I suppose you think that all the racial problems in this country caused by prejudice is all in the distant past EXCEPT for black prejudice against white folks.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (4:03 pm)
Reply to: nightbreed
A former Baptist, and now a pagan? It's supposed to work the other way around. You know, there are a whole lot of "former Baptists" out there. When visit in the prison and check the religious affiliation of the inmates, Baptist is by far number one. I guess Baptists are rather imperfect bunch. So, I fit in well.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (4:07 pm)
Reply to: IntricateGirl
From personal observation and even connection, I can say that large attendance, popularity, and money do not necessarily make for a good church. How quickly the church has adopted the standards of the world to measure itself. Perhaps a few poverty-stricken folk, gathering under a tree in a third world country to worship Christ, would be a far greater church than mighty First Baptist in most towns?
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (4:14 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
Don't be too hard on the Baptists, PastorDave, lol! The prisons are full of Baptists in the south because Baptists outnumber all the others i the south by about 5 to 1, even higher among blacks. So, because we are putting blacks in prison at record rates in areas like Atlants, the statistical stacking insures a big bunch of 'em would have grown up as Baptists.
Heck, where I grew up even the Methodists thought they were just a branch of the Baptist church reserved for liberals! Ha! Ha! (That's pretty funny - you can use that one if you want!)
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (4:15 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
The world people of the industrialized democracies are leaving mainstream religion in droves, PastorDave or haven't you heard?
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (4:35 pm)
Reply to: fractalmom
I appreciate your coming along and having the brashness to enter this conversation.
The sermon, to which I link, is a worthwhile homily. And I have not read or heard much of what else this guy has to say, just what the commentators are passing along. I know I would not sit in a church, dedicated to the glory of God, and listen to such language from the pulpit.
Yes, does not treat all with equality. Some have it tougher. Government is not the solution, as surely more than a few Democrat administrations have proven. I wonder, should I scan a year of Rev. Wright's sermons, if I would find an encouragement toward personal responsibility? How about forgiveness? How about an admonition for racial inclusiveness within his own congregation?
Well, you can fend for yourself quite well!
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (4:44 pm)
Reply to: docsavage
Sorry, but I do not see where America claims an official spiritual superiority to the rest of the world. The separation of church and state, while a pain in the butt, is a great part of American political process. I've never heard nor read that George Bush claims the mantle of prophet or priest. Even Lincoln, whom I greatly admire, was never convinced that he had discerned the side of God in the Civil War. In my opinion, as we continue to engage in World War III, we are not fighting a religious war. However, we are fighting against adherents of a vile and evil brand of religion.
Doc, for a proclaimed and energetic non-believer, you sure have a lot to say about God. Seems you would find plenty of reason to disparage the religion of folks like Wright, every bit as much as those of a more conservative and I believe genteel nature.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (4:48 pm)
Reply to: docsavage
Within the church of today, we have the sheep and the wolves. Jesus himself has taught that not all who say Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom. In the name of the church is much that is false, empty, ungodly, and uninspired of God. That brand of church is not prospering. yes, it is being abandoned by the droves. However, the true church is doing well. The underground church in China claims hundreds of millions of adherents. There is even a prospering underground church in Arab countries. Much of the church in America is spiritually bankrupt. When you abandon the gospel, and Christ, you have an empty shell. There is a cleansing process taking place. But the church, the true church, is doing well.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (4:52 pm)
Reply to: nightbreed
Wow! What has been shared by this person goes beyond a desire for correction, and sounds like a real desire for the destruction of our country. When does one cross the line from protest to treason?
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (5:01 pm)
Reply to: docsavage
I think there is ample opportunity for anyone who truly desires to pull himself/herself out of poverty. The problem is the lack of desire. And, from where does this lack of desire come? I think it is cultural. Black or white. I believe the answer does not come in militant politics, but in the gospel of Christ. Through the message of Christianity one learns self respect, proper treatment of others, and to strive to live a life of quality, and all for the glory of God and love of one's fellow man. You can't hate another person, steal from another person, take advantage of your fellow man, etc., and be in true fellowship with God. It's a simple message. I wish Rev. Wright would use his considerable talents and influence to preach this message. Perhaps he does- like I have stated, I have not studied his body of work- just a few samples.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (5:04 pm)
Reply to: surrogate
I'm mostly in agreement. Well, until you call idiots those who support our noble and necessary effort in Iraq.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (5:39 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
I know, I know... Just enjoy your home this evening and be thankful some super-power didn't decide it was okay to make your family collateral damage in THEIR noble cause. (Most causes are "noble" to the perpetrators.)
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (5:41 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
So, what do you suppose you should do as a Christian when you are witness to injustice and oppression that is systemic to a particular society's modus operandi?
Don't you have a moral AND spiritual obligation to call attention to the injustice while simultaneous encouraging the victims of the injustice to rise above their circumstances so as to not self-victimize and do even further damage to themselves and their families?
I don't remember anyone saying ol' grandpa was a purveyor of "victomology" when he was working on those bridges as part of the governments aid to post-depression era poor?
Hmmm... right, those were 99% poor white men. I guess something malfunctioned with their boot-straps?
It gets so tiring hearing folks like you and Fractalmom emphasize personal responsibility over systemic obstacles to progress at the bottom of our socio-economic structure. Doc Savage has forgotten more about free market economies, creating jobs and the functioning of Capitalism than either of you know combined!
I also know a little something about pulling myself up by the boot-straps. However, my boot-straps had a ton of help and good bit of luck to allow me to rise above my own meager circumstances to achieve more than my parents from an economic perspective. (I'm entirely doubtful I've achieved more than than my parents by any other measures of value in life.)
But, hey, the world thanks you both for your meaningless bromides and inherently arrogant take on the matter.
Since you bring up "culture" as a cause -- I wonder what "culture" it was that made slavery the backbone of the Southern economy for a couple of hundred years until a politician with the will to take on injustice fought sent soldiers in to kill a whole bunch of Southern white guys who had so obviously pulled themselves by the bootstraps of black slaves?
I'll tell you what "culture" -- the same Christian Supremecist culture that tells the descendants of these same slaves to stop crying about unjust social and economic policies and to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, that's what "culture"!
posted by:
nightbreed (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (6:25 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
i have never been to jail, prison, or even gotten a speeding ticket (knock on wood)...
i spent the first 12 years of my life in europe and turkey.. but you know what.. i was never happier then i was when i sat foot on american soil... GOD (goddess) BLESS AMERICA...LAND OF THE FREE AND HOME OF THE BRAVE...
that's it for me on this whole subject and post untill you post again.. i bid you ado..
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (6:27 pm)
Reply to: docsavage
It is rather clear that you are harboring a good bit of guilt about your success in life. Why don't you follow the instruction of Jesus that you so righteously quote, sell all and give to the poor?
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (7:00 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
ROFLMAO
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (7:10 pm)
Reply to: docsavage
you wrote "So, what do you suppose you should do as a Christian when you are witness to injustice and oppression that is systemic to a particular society's modus operandi?
Don't you have a moral AND spiritual obligation to call attention to the injustice while simultaneous encouraging the victims of the injustice to rise above their circumstances so as to not self-victimize and do even further damage to themselves and their families?"
sounds sort of like what we are doing in Iraq. hmmm
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (7:20 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
well thanks PD !! I think I was most put off by his comments about America giving blacks heroin to get them hooked, America inventing HIV to keep blacks down, America doing this...America doing that...if he doesn't like it go live somewhere else...
My constitution may allow him space to foment his balderdash...but God gave me a B R A I N...so I will continue to use it.
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (7:44 pm)
Reply to: fractalmom
You'll make a terrific Nazi! lol! Oh, and you're so much smarter than those who disagree with you. Really, aren't you proud?
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (7:47 pm)
Reply to: fractalmom
I believe we should stay in Iraq and do what we reasonably can to stablize the country and give the reasonable folks there a shot at having a decent place to live. I don't think we should have gone under the pretenses we went or with the initial strategy we used, but, we helped create the current chaos so we must make our best attempt to help them.
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (7:49 pm)
Reply to: fractalmom
The difference with Iraq is that we had NO justification to invade them in the first place!
posted by:
spook102956 (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (8:00 pm)
This is a reply to IntracateGirl: I think some churches do fall short when they only preach salvation. Salvation is wonderful but we need to hear what to do after that. Some churches call it sanctification. It's something The Lord gives some at time of salvation and some later. Other people call it being filled with the Spirit. In my humble opinion, they are talking about the same thing. And no, it doesn't mean you're perfect, but you have a personal, daily relationship with God and seek Him in every area of your life. I think it's scary when we preach/talk about salvation but it ends there.
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (8:01 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
If I were in a conversation with Reverend Wright or commenting on HIS blog, I'd have plenty to say. I would never avoid praising you for any act or stance I believed were worthy of praise just because you believe a personal deity has a vested interest in your outer-actions and your inner-thoughts. I don't believe Jesus was God or even claimed to be God. I do, however, believe that there are some clues about what the historical Jesus may have taught his actual followers that got him into so much trouble with the Jewish leadership and with Rome. I believe those teachings in regard to political power where much more like Reverend Wright's criticisms of America than anything that's coming out of your pulpit.
I know a lot about the Easter Bunny, too, but I don't believe that eating His chocolate or drinking His Egg Nog will change anything about what happens to me when I die.
One doesn't need to be an Orthodox Believer in the Doctrines of the Christian Church to understand the general ethics sermon attributed to Jesus in the Beatitudes or to be able to comment on whether or not the Christians I observe live out those ethics as individuals or within their institutions.
posted by:
docsavage (
reply)
post date:
03.20.08 (8:02 pm)
Reply to: fractalmom
You can spell "brain"! Congratulations, you've been approved for Cabinet Position in the Bush Administration!
posted by:
nightbreed (
reply)
post date:
03.21.08 (11:43 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
dang... you wrote a blasted book didn't you...
posted by:
nightbreed (
reply)
post date:
03.21.08 (11:54 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
I do the dew.... ;}
posted by:
nightbreed (
reply)
post date:
03.21.08 (1:49 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
been to the bristol races?? they were here last weekend..ugh..the tourans...
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
03.21.08 (4:40 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
What I've always gotten a kick out of, is that we've been told by the right to listen and believe when Bin Laden has said he wants to hurt the U.S. but we're supposed to ignore what's he's said his reasons are. Then, he's lying. "Purdy con-VEN-ient" - as Church Lady might say.
posted by:
thejongleur (
reply)
post date:
03.21.08 (7:09 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
I have, in the past, been troubled by kurt's views and the way they have been expressed. In his comments here, however, he has provided the first lesson for anyone wishing to pass judgment on race, religion, war, america, and the history of all those things.
There are of course many more (complex) lessons to be learnt, but those who believe in merely sitting up and taking responsibility should find that improving oneself with such tasks is simple enough.
ams
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.21.08 (8:09 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
If you read the initial post, I think you will find it to basically be positive. A lot of assumptions, posturing, and sermonizing have come my way from various folk, assuming somehow that I am the devil around here. And in my opinion, I'm not duped by a bad idea. I'm not a Zionist! I do not equate the current secular state of Israel with the Israel of the Bible. I have sympathy for the plight of the Palestinian people, who had lived there for centuries before the powers-that-be moved in with their solution to the Jewish problem. I think John Hagee is a sham, whether he is preaching about support for the nation of Israel or lecturing about healthy living (Once I somehow found him on my television, charts in hand, preaching about how to lose weight! How ridiculous.). Jesus will return one day, and perhaps soon. But, I don't hold much credence with so much of the fanciful interpretations of Revelation, Daniel, etc. Kurt, you have conversed with me surely enough to not lump me in with that bunch? I am conservative, evangelical, but I am not a fundamentalist. Just watch my new program airing nightly on the 700 Club if you still doubt.
And, I do not think George Bush is a fundamentalist Christian, either. Such folk are simply a political bloc, manipulated for purposes of economics and raw power.
One more thing, kurt: Why don't you shed your alter-ego, docsavage, and simply be yourself?
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
03.22.08 (10:18 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
nice to see you weighing in again.
posted by:
LadyG (
reply)
post date:
03.22.08 (5:53 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox Now that we have pooled our ignorance in establishing guilt by association can we now get back to real campaigning so that a line of demarcation can be established between the candidate base on the issues of health care, high energy cost, taxes, cost of education and global warmning. lets not reinvent swift boating this election is to important.
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
03.23.08 (6:29 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
Congrats on the impending wedding!!
Intractable socio-economic concerns at a macro level.
that reminds me of my days in Multnomah County Legal Services.
Now remember, at this age, I am simply basing my philosophy and ideology on what I have learned in life, as well as college.
We helped the disadvantaged. Economically and socially, as well as sometimes mentally. I was, and am, at heart, in ways, a die hard liberal. However, that being said, I did notice a few things that really haven't changed.
I worked my ass off as the Director of a battered women's center. I worked my ass off as a paralegal at one of the largest and most productive legal service centers in the nation.
I worked hard to lift the mantle of abject poverty and powerlessness from the people I served. I did countless entrances into college, for clients, so that they could rise above the poverty and endless welfare cycle that they seemed trapped by.
I got jobs for people. Not low end jobs. Careers.
Out of the perhaps thousand people I served in four years, ONE graduated from college. The rest dropped out. They were provided (at governments expense) transportation, brand new housing, medical, food, college education, daycare for their children, clothing, washers and dryers, al ll their legal and social needs were met, again, at government expense, they received free tutoring in any subject which they had trouble with, a reasonable income (at that time) which was over $700 a month on average. (this was 1979).
Given every single thing except time travel to reverse the cycle of abject poverty and apathy and lift themselves out of the only life they had ever known, they failed to do so.
I watched over and over again as those who were 'downtrodden' and beaten by society were offered every single thing to climb, on a government ramp of hardly any degree of incline at all, the climb was simply too steep for most.
that hurt. Alot. And it confused me enormously.
See, I had been one of those on welfare. I had made that climb. I lived in section 8 housing. I got food stamps and welfare. I went to college on loans and grants. And I was grateful as hell and looked forward to the day when I could become gainfully employed and pay taxes to enable other's to benefit from my handout, which I intended to turn into a productive thing. And, I did.
the clientèle I worked with was in northwest Oregon. Portland, to be more exact. The racial breakdown was about 50/40/10 between black/white/asian.
I didn't see much difference in the outcomes. The language barrier perhaps, among the Hmong people was about the only difference. And of the people I served, the Hmong seemed to do the best. Not at college, not at first anyway, but at becoming self sufficient, and off the government dole.
What I did find was that there was a pervasive 'welfare mentality' which could NOT be beaten. Why should those young teenage mothers go to all the trouble to suceed, or work, or stay in college, when they could stay at home and get all the same perks? They still got free housing, enough food stamps to eat well, free cheese and milk from the USDA programs, just about every need was satisfied, except smoking and drinking and drugs.
College was simply too much. It required effort. Jobs were out of the question, because they couldn't sleep in in the mornings, and had to arrange to actually get the kids off to school or daycare, and organize their chaotic lives to facilitate going to work.
I fought the fucking welfare mentality and lost. Again and again. I went on to continue fighting it for another twenty years. In social work, in trying to teach good and productive parenting skills. In helping with legal issues. Battered women.
I protested an unjust and uneeded war. I protested a government who seemed not to care. When the education grants were axed by Nixon, I had to go out and secure loans to finish college.
Yes, there is something inside each and every one of us which drives, or FAILS to drive us to move up and on.
And artifically giving it to those who do not possess the drive is a waste of resources and time. This is the lesson I learned.
And your statement that "Some member in any system will always find or make the breaks they need for life to line up well for them. For every case of a great outcome, there are an equal number of cases where the individual approached the same challenges with the same attitude and the same "can do" spirit of personal responsibility, but, the person gets very different results. As a society, it is in every individuals best interest to make every rational attempt to insure that as many individuals as possible as good a result as possible with similar efforts."...I believe has been achieved.
Every single child born in America today has every opportunity to do with their lives as they wish.
But, you cannot MAKE them wish.
and any white person who was raised in an upper middle class existence, where it is taken as rote that they can succeed, will never understand the total apathy and lack of determination that someone of another race, and another socio-economic group faces.
I don't have any easy answer. I know I tried and tried, and failed. I know it made me a bit cynical. I know welfare does not work. It helps neither the economically oppressed, nor the helpers.
I have personally, two daughters who have been, or are on welfare. One graduated from college and now is a nurse. She makes good money and pays taxes. She pays her own rent. She is a productive member of society.
The other still lives in Section 8 housing. She gets $100 dollars a month in food stamps. She works at a dead end job as a Nurse's aide. She makes $7.85 an hour, but only works part time so she doesn't lose her benefits. She and the baby get the medical card. Her methadone is paid for by welfare, and she gets transportation expenses paid to and from the clinic.
Between her transportation money ($1192.00 a month) and her take home pay (750.00) and her food stamps ($100.00), and she receives free daycare for the baby (valued at $300.00) and her free rent ($450 month), she makes damn good money. Actually more than her sister who works three jobs, and pays a whopping $750 month rent.
Then, she whines to me about not having enough money. She is receiving, in wages, goverment cash and benefits almost 2800 a month. For her and a one year old baby.
It sickens me. Her dad and I are on a fixed retirment income of slightly over 1,000 more than she brings home. I am sick of hearing her whine about being broke, when we are paying a mortgage and raiser HER two other children with no support at all from her, because she is considered in a drug treatment program and so cannot be responsible for child support.
She reminds me of the people I used to try to help. They don't WANT help. Why the hell should they.
All they want is to stay a victim of their own stupidity.
So, yeah. I HAVE thought it out Kurt. for years and years.
THAT is the reality of the abject poverty. Bottom line is some people just like to whine about what they don't have, even when they have a whole lot more than alot of people. They like being victims. They like blaming others. They don't want to take personal responsibility for their actions, or lack thereof.
And no government program is going to change that.
The opportunities are there. They just don't work for those who don't want them to.
And that is reality.
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
03.23.08 (10:54 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
I abhor discrimination in any manner. And, as an American, Christian and a humanist, whenever I see discrimination, or hear discrimination, then I stand up and say/do something about it.
As to the various and sundry programs that are exsistent today, I am all for them. And, further, I think we should keep most of them. There will always be those who need help. And, as a country, as a people, we should offer that help.
The really sad thing is that there will also always be those who abuse the systems. You cannot stop it, and you shouldn't make those who benefit and use the services as they are intended, suffer.
I am not the only person in the world who has ever done the bootstrap dance. To think otherwise would be ridiculous. Many millions do that dance daily.
I live in a nation where we don't face famine and abject poverty on a daily basis. Our children, for the most part, are fed, clothed, educated. We are incredibly lucky to live here.
In using my life, which is the ONLY thing I am sure of relying on, as I haven't lived anyone else's life.
I do see alot of victims around here. We live in one of the largest heroin areas in the US. Maybe I am warped. Who knows?
I do see people daily who blame their ills on others, instead of standing up and saying "hey, I screwed up my own life...". It saddens, and sickens me. I don't know what to do about it Kurt.
I want my taxes to benefit the things that help others. I want the single mother to go to college and get a Masters degree. I really want her to raise her children to also go to college. I want her kids to believe that they can be astronauts, or the president.
I don't know how to fix our system. I just know it's broke, but the alternatives don't seem too good either.
Our education pisses me off. The schools funding is dependent upon the test scores and the test scores are not reflective of the students. The schools are 'teaching to the test'. I hate that. But again, I have no answers.
And sadly, neither do our politicians.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
04.01.08 (7:41 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
I ALMOST copied and pasted ALL the comments on this post written by either Doc or Kurt to do a word count, but became depressed when I realized that between them, they'd certainly written more words here
than I have on my new book since the beginning of the year.
I resent it.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
04.01.08 (9:23 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
True... We all run out of T.P. every and again.
posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
05.12.08 (4:36 pm)
I am writing to express my concerns about Rev. Jeremiah G. Wright, Jr. and, more specifically, his ideas regarding surly con artists. And that's why I feel compelled to say something about conniving loons. He wants to control every aspect of our lives. Jeremiah wants us to rise, fall asleep, work, and live at the beat of a drum. Then, once we're molded into a uniform mass, we'll be incapable of seeing that Jeremiah's jokes have created a prolix universe devoid of logic and evidence. Only within this universe does it make sense to say that a plausible excuse is a satisfactory substitute for performance. Only within this universe does it make sense to make a mockery of our most fundamentally held beliefs. And, only if we force him into early retirement can we destroy this foul-mouthed universe of his and challenge him to defend his conclusions or else to change them.
I recently read a book confirming what I've been saying for years, that I used to insist that Jeremiah was a disorganized knucklehead. However, after seeing how he wants to make a cause célèbre out of his campaign to twist the truth, I now have an even lower opinion of him. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that Jeremiah's loyalists are too lazy to search for solutions that are more creative and constructive than the typically callous ones championed by the most deranged storytellers I've ever seen. They just want to sit back, fasten their mouths on the public teats, and casually forget that I and Jeremiah part company when it comes to the issue of Pyrrhonism. He feels that everyone who scrambles aboard the Jeremiah G. Wright bandwagon is guaranteed a smooth ride while I allege that certain facts are clear. For instance, there is no such thing as evil in the abstract. It exists only in the evil deeds of evil people like Jeremiah.
Jeremiah speaks like a true defender of the status quo -- a status quo, we should not forget, that enables him to make people suspicious of those who speak the truth. Contrary to the impression that larcenous, slovenly dummkopfs offer "new," "innovative," and "advanced" ideas, there is little new in their press releases. Is he a pious person? Yes, although Jeremiah's "piety" unerringly leads him to whichever dogma is best for business. Speaking of which, he clearly believes that the worst types of debauched mountebanks there are are more deserving of honor than our nation's war heroes. What kind of Humpty-Dumpty world is he living in? I don't pretend to know the answer but I do know that when I hear him say that big emotions come from big words, I have to wonder about him. Is he totally biased? Is he simply being salacious? Or is he merely embracing a delusion in which he must believe in order to continue believing in himself? I've never really gotten a clear and honest answer to that question from Jeremiah. But what is clear is that if we let him render unspeakable and unthinkable whole categories of beliefs about power, all we'll have to look forward to in the future is a public realm devoid of culture and a narrow and routinized professional life untouched by the highest creations of civilization.
Don't misunderstand me; I'm not saying that the best way to serve one's country is to attack the very fabric of this nation. In fact, he believes that free speech is wonderful as long as you're not bashing him and the unpatriotic, lousy carpetbaggers in his retinue. Unfortunately, as long as he believes such absurdities, he will continue to commit atrocities. Believe it or not, I really want to believe that Jeremiah is a decent, honest person. Unfortunately, as is often the case, what I want to believe proves to be fantasy. The truth is that I have a tendency to report the more sensational things that Jeremiah is up to, the more shocking things, things like how he wants to defy the law of the land. And I realize the difficulty that the average person has in coming to grips with that, but he must have some sort of problem with reading comprehension. That's the only explanation I can come up with as to why he accuses me of admitting that going through the motions of working is the same as working. What I actually said is that Jeremiah has -- not once, but several times -- been able to reinforce the concept of collective guilt that is the root of all prejudice without anyone stopping him. How long can that go on? As long as his demonic notions are kept on life support. That's why we have to pull the plug on them and call for proper disciplinary action against him and his apparatchiks.
What a cunning coup on the part of Jeremiah's protégés, who set out to dupe people into believing that violence and prejudice are funny and got as far as they did without anyone raising an eyebrow. Verily, whenever there's an argument about Jeremiah's devotion to principles and to freedom, all one has to do is point out that Jeremiah's outrage at complaints about him is indicative of his self-esteem and value system. That should settle the argument pretty quickly. To the best of my knowledge, I must protest Jeremiah's use of the most obstinate buttinskies I've ever seen to achieve his abusive goals. Am I being too harsh for writing that? Maybe I am, but that's really the only way you can push a point through to Jeremiah.
Why does Jeremiah want to construct the spectre of a terrible armed threat? Psychologists might suggest that he has made some imprecise statements and statements that ought to have had all sorts of qualifications and reservations attached to them. Counselors might contend that it is in Jeremiah's nature to be a deceiver and a destroyer and a bloodsucker. Sociologists might point out that cowardice, irresponsibility, and allotheism are inextricably wedded in his animadversions. I agree with the above assessments, but I am deliberately using colorful language in this letter. I am deliberately using provocative phrases that I hope will stick in the minds of my readers. I do ensure, however, that my words are always appropriate and accurate and clearly explain how either Jeremiah has no real conception of the sweep of history, or he is merely intent on winning some debating pin by trying to pierce a hole in my logic with "facts" that are taken out of context.
Of course, I'm generalizing a little here. But that's only because Jeremiah doesn't want me to encourage our spirits to soar. Well, I've never been a very obedient dog so I intend not only to do exactly that but also to act honorably. He uses the word "microcrystallography" without ever having taken the time to look it up in the dictionary. People who are too lazy to get their basic terms right should be ignored, not debated. Even giving Jeremiah the benefit of the doubt, he seems to assume that his obiter dicta prevent smallpox. This is an assumption of the worst kind because talking about Jeremiah in the highly charged vortex of demagogism is always burdened with agitation and diversion. Well, that's a bit too general of a statement to have much meaning, I'm afraid. So let me instead explain my point as follows: Even Jeremiah's horoscope says he's officious. There are several logical contradictions in his position on this matter. For example, people used to think I was exaggerating whenever I said that Jeremiah and several groups of contumacious beguilers are in cahoots to confuse the catastrophic power of state fascism with the repression of an authoritarian government in our minds. After seeing Jeremiah play fast and loose with the truth these same people now realize that I wasn't exaggerating at all. In fact, they even realize that Jeremiah, with his craftiness and disorderly paroxysms, will entirely control our country's exuberant riches some day. Jeremiah will then use those riches to break down traditional values. The moral of this story is that he is not the only one who needs to reassess his assumptions. Think about unbridled, crafty madmen. They too should realize that he has written volumes about how he is the way, the truth, and the light. Don't believe a word of it, though. The truth is that he has two imperatives. The first is to elevate the most loquacious autocrats I've ever seen to the sublime. The second imperative is to seek temporary tactical alliances with inerudite bozos in order to promote group-think attitudes over individual insights.
Whenever Jeremiah tries to ridicule the accomplishments of generations of great men and women, so do the most pusillanimous trolls I've ever seen. Similarly, whenever he attempts to trick academics into abandoning the principles of scientific inquiry, blockish Machiavellians typically attempt the same. I do not seek to draw any causal scheme from these correlations. I mention them only because he seems to have recently added the word "scientificoreligious" to his otherwise simplistic vocabulary. I suppose Jeremiah intends to use big words like that to obscure the fact that the law is not just a moral stance. It is the consensus of society on our minimum standards of behavior. Given this context, we need to return to the idea that motivated this letter: He believes that antagonism is a be-all, end-all system that should be forcefully imposed upon us. Sorry, but I have to call foul on that one.
Unless the bogeyman is going to get us if we don't agree to Jeremiah's demands, it is simply wrong to conclude that Jeremiah is a refined gentleman with the soundest education and morals you can imagine. It's not the bogeyman that our children need to worry about. It's Jeremiah. Not only is Jeremiah more power-drunk and more devious than any envisaged bogeyman or bugbear, but Jeremiah's emissaries were recently seen turning positions of leadership into positions of complacency. That's not a one-time accident or oversight. That's Jeremiah's policy. If he bites me I will bite back. I could accept, perhaps, principles backed by the forces of logic and powerful reasoning. Morals marked with hypocrisy and contradiction, however, merit none of my respect.
Jeremiah maintains that he is always being misrepresented and/or persecuted. Even if this were so, Jeremiah would still be shallow. But if Jeremiah can't stand the heat, he should get out of the kitchen. I'll end this letter with a personal invitation to Rev. Jeremiah G. Wright, Jr. himself: If you care to respond to what I wrote, please do, especially if you think that I am being inaccurate or unfair. I do not wish to misrepresent you in any way whatsoever. Pax vobiscum.
