Baptist Pastor Says "We're Sorry" To.... Almost Everybody!
Links:
Atlanta Journal Constitution
WXIA, Atlanta (with 174 comments!)
First Baptist Church, Sugar Hill, GA
Perhaps you are gay. You and your partner have been persuaded to show up for the Sunday morning worship service at First Baptist Church of Sugar Hill, Georgia. The local media is abuzz with the subject and title of the Pastor’s sermon, “We’re Sorry”, which comes with a stated promise to apologize to “…gays, women seeking abortions, and couples who live together outside marriage.” You are not the only first-time visitor. Indeed, there are several whose chosen lifestyles fit these terms of description. And so you uncomfortably but politely sit through the music and multimedia, awaiting your apology. Much of your life you have been made to feel uncomfortable by the religious crowd. What you have wanted is affirmation and acceptance, not condemnation. You have desired the church to say, “we accept you as you are- we do not require for you to change.” Finally, you think, here will be a preacher and a church that will make you feel good about yourself.
As I study this unfolding story in the County where live, I am pretty sure that many people approached the situation at Sugar Hill Church with a similar mindset. And I am also pretty sure that they walked away from the church feeling disappointed, even betrayed. This is because I believe it to be a situation in which a preacher used slick marketing techniques to advertise a product that he could not and would not deliver. I am sure the preacher is a good guy. He looks unassuming, with a nice smile. And I am sure he would never flat-out lie and intentionally hurt another person. But in his zeal to promote his church and recruit visitors, this is what he has done. And I will tell you why.
I am a pastor and member of the same Denomination as this church. His is a much more booming and prosperous congregation. Recently they built a new facility, and have already outgrown it. The church is composed of upper-middle-class Baptists making good money and wanting a good place for their families. These people demand the best, and the church has done well to market itself. Such people enjoy the first-class facilities, “caffeinated” worship music, and practical sermons. There are plenty of programs and activities for everybody, and so the church prospers. Yet, make no mistake, these are still conservative people. They vote, live, and choose to worship in an unapologetically conservative manner. They just insist that it all fit in with their climbing social strata.
I say all this to point out that there is most likely no way this church is making the liberal offer that has been seductively advertised. In Baptist churches we give an “invitation” at the end of the worship service. It has been modernized in many ways, and in some churches there is no longer the bid to walk the aisle in commitment to Christ. Instead, one may be encouraged to fill out an interest card, or meet with a church leader for latte and conversation in a gospel coffee shoppe later that day. Still, there will be afforded opportunity to commit your heart to Christ and become a member of the church. And here is where the truth of the matter will come out for Rev. Lee, the folk of Sugar Hill Church, and the visitors who happen to be of whatever unrepentant “sinful” persuasion.
Pastor Lee is not going to publicly proclaim it to be o.k. and God affirming to be actively involved in a gay relationship. That is not what the members of his church believe. It is not what he believes. He will not offer membership into his church to non-repentant gay couples. Nor will he proclaim that it is o.k. and God-affirming to have an abortion, or live with a partner in a sexual relationship without marriage. These things are not biblical. They are not compatible with what is overwhelmingly understood to be proper lifestyle by conservative Christians, the kind of people who compose Rev. Lee’s church. These people studied Rev. Lee carefully before they voted for him to be their pastor. He may be unconventional in some of his sales techniques, but he is a bedrock conservative with his theology.
I suspect he wants to reach out to gays, unmarried couples, pregnant women considering abortions, and other groups who usually stay far away from his brand of church. That is good. It is most like Christ to seek to love others into the Kingdom of God; but, not with a false or misleading message. I am sure the sermon that morning had to do with loving the sinner even as we hate the sin. I’ve preached it. Most evangelical preachers have, also. A favorite text is where Jesus said to the woman who would have otherwise been stoned for adultery, “Neither do I condemn thee. Go, and sin no more.” I’ve a feeling Dr. Lee zoomed past the latter part of the quotation, and spent most of his time upon the first. It is bad Christian theology, of course. There can be no forgiveness of sin without repentance. But, most germane to this particular situation, it is just not fair to the sinner.
I want you to become a follower of Christ. But I cannot lie to you about the cost involved. It’s a cross, not an apology.
03.31.08 (5:25 pm) [
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posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
03.31.08 (4:07 pm)
I recently read an article(tried to find the link but couldn't) that made the case that American religion is so much more dynamic and successful than European religion specifically because of the unique American flavor of religion, which is, of course, mostly the Christian religion.
The article pointed out how in America, the Founding Fathers insistence that the state stay out of matters of religion created a market-driven environment for religion. The successful churches and denominations over the last 400 years in America have been those that have successfully adapted their Gospel to their audience rather than vice versa. Now, folks like Pastor Rick Warren will certainly make their case that they have a Biblical mandate to reach out to folks in ways that are relevant them. From a Biblical perspective, that seems mostly a defensible position to me using the example of Paul's obvious efforts to add a very Greek favor to his message in order to reach his Greek audience. Of course, Paul was so successful in that endeavor that his Greek brand of Christianity has dominated the world for the last 1600 years or so.
We've been over all the rest before with homosexuality, et al, so I'll spare you the rehash here other than to say that as soon as you start preaching what the Bible really teaches about divorce and adultery, then I'll respect the integrity of your Biblical approach to homosexuals and same-sex marriage ;-)
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
03.31.08 (5:39 pm)
I still find the whole idea of "loving the sinner but hating the sin," a cute way to justify hating a bunch of people whose lives are not "sin" at all - despite what you folks have conveniently decided to believe - and is just another proof to me that Jesus would be heartsick at what has been done, built and promoted in his name. He'd no more exclude ANYONE than you folks (that's the ubiquitous "you") have a right to. I find that sort of marketing as evil as the awful stunt pulled by the criminals from your last post; worse in fact, because it's being done by people who ought to know better. I say F**K that preacher... I hope there is a hell, cuz, Dave? He's going there, and if not, God is in no way just.
Sorry, this makes my blood boil.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
03.31.08 (6:37 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
No WAY will they truly acknowledge that jesus spoke WAY more often about divorce than he did homosexuality. That would eliminate half the adult population. By picking on gays, they get to make all their non-gay members - even the divorced ones - feel superior, making gleaning their wallets all the easier.
Not that I'm cynical about it.
posted by:
bipolarexpress (
reply)
post date:
03.31.08 (6:42 pm)
oh boy..cant wait to see what ole doc savage has to say about this one ;)
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.31.08 (6:55 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
I understand these are hot button social issues, and they have been debated around here many times. The purpose of this post is to consider the intent of this minister. In my opinion, he is feigning to give the impression he is moderate/accepting, so that he will get publicity and a full church. And I will bet that the actual beliefs toward such matters of behavior are not nearly as moderate/liberal as falsely advertised. So, what do you think of such a false brand of advertising on the part of a preacher? It seems to me most people, even so-called hardened "sinners", would more appreciate honesty than shifty salesmanship.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.31.08 (6:59 pm)
Reply to: surrogate
"F**K that preacher"? But he is advertising his great acceptance, his great love and non-condemning of such folk. Perhaps you perceive a lack of honesty with his sales pitch?
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
03.31.08 (7:02 pm)
Reply to: bipolarexpress
I'd like to see if Doc can deal with the intent of the post, which is not to debate issues such as homosexuality and cohabitation outside of marriage.
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
03.31.08 (7:31 pm)
false advertising. no doubt.
and, truthfully LOL, i cannot let this go.
if i hate the sin, i usually hate the sinner as well. at least i'm honest about it. besides, i think that's a REALLY stupid saying.
best call the paper, if surrogate, kurt and I are agreeing on something..,it's probably the end of the world as we know it...
rolling off singing..laughing hysterically.
posted by:
Robin (
reply)
post date:
03.31.08 (8:52 pm)
Interesting ... although based on some other Atlanta area ministries I have seen lately, you may be wrong about his intent.
Jamie Bakker had a church there in ATL, (then he left for NYC, and the atlanta branch was taken over by another) ... but the point is his church apologized to homosexuals and others that have been judged by the church at the expense of so many other sins that are accepted by american evangelicals... so maybe this pastor has had an epiphany along the lines of ... "sorry we judged your sin as being heinously worse than our own sins, like materialistic mammon worship and greed, adultery, and divorce, and running lukewarm, and being MASSIVE LEGALISTIC PHARISEES, as we all do. We did not have to be perfect before we came to the Lord and he accepted us ... heck, in fact we are still not perfect ...you don't have to be perfect just come as you are and he will perfect you as he is transforming us ... all you need to do is realize your sin nature and your absolute depravity in all areas becuase of it ... and most importantly your need of a Savior ... we invite whosoever will to come and we repent of our hypocrisy and blindness regarding our own sins ... deeming ourselves wise, we became fools... and for this we apologize. "
posted by:
bipolarexpress (
reply)
post date:
03.31.08 (9:53 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
i'm replying to this before i scroll down to see what he/she said..lol
i think i'm skaret..
posted by:
kurtmaddox (
reply)
post date:
03.31.08 (10:59 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
Fair enough... I would be interested to hear the actual sermon. Maybe you can find it and post it here. That'd be fun :-)
posted by:
ggirl (
reply)
post date:
04.03.08 (12:37 pm)
What's the point of getting people in the church when you're just going to ultimately reject them? That makes absolutely no sense. You end up with one-time visitors who leave with a very unpleasant taste in their mouths for Christians.
Aren't we all sinners? There are lots of prohibitions in the Bible that we ignore. It seems to me that the whole concept of "denomination" is defined by which ones of the prohibitions we choose to notice and enforce (for lack of a better word). I have my own denomination, so please know I'm not picking on yours.
Sometimes I find religious practice very, very frustrating.
posted by:
asillywilly (
reply)
post date:
04.05.08 (9:50 am)
to become a follower,it helps to get them to where they can hear the word.and like robin tries to point out their sins are no greater than our lies, lust, and so on.conviction of the holy ghost should begin any changes needing to be made.
posted by:
Harmony (
reply)
post date:
04.07.08 (10:10 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
The sermon is available on the church's website both as an MP3 file and a link to YouTube.
I was unable to paste here. PastorDave has a link to the church's website above.
