I was not wanting to debate her. Instead it was my desire to have a private visit with a fellow church member. But she kept eavesdropping into our conversation and interjecting her particular form of twisted commentary. I tried to be polite, simply nodding and smiling, and maybe offering a few innocuous replies. But she was insistent upon confrontation. And she should have known better. Humbly, I like to refer to myself as The Master Debater, and she would be the next to fall under the weight of my exacting intellect and sharp wit.

Basically she was just talking out into the air, to anyone who would listen...
Lady: I'll be so glad to get back with my group of True Believers.
PDave: Ummm.

Lady: We're Jehovah's Witnesses, you know.
A smug sense of superiority oozed from the comment.
PDave: That's nice.

Lady: And we're the only religious group that welcomes people of all colors.
This she stated with great authority. Now she had my attention.
PDave: What?

Lady: That's right. Everybody else just sticks to their own kind. We accept people of all races.
A bit of drool was glistening from the corner of her mouth.
PDave: Well I guess you haven't been to my church. We have blacks, whites, Asians, Hispanics, and good bit of folk in between.

Lady: Naah. You might have a few. But we are the only Ones who are truly integrated.
No logic to this statement. And where would she find statistics to support this ludicrous assertion?
PDave: What you are saying is just not true.
Lady: Yes it is.
PDave: No it isn't.
Lady: Ahhhh...... Her eyes bulged, and her tongue came out, for emphasis
PDave: Ahhhh..... Ditto

PDave: Look. You are fixated with a society from 50 years ago. I know all kinds of Christian congregations that are fully integrated. Baptist. United Methodist. Assembly of God. You're absolutely wrong on that.
I feel very comfortable with the superiority of my logic. She can't argue with fact. I've won the debate, and she knows it!
Lady: No, you're wrong.
PDave: You're wrong.
Lady: Ahhhh....
PDave: Ahhhh....

Lady: And I noticed when you came into the room you didn't pray with me. It's because I'm black.
How absolutely ludicrous. And how sad that she would need to resort to such ad hominen attack. I'll easily deflect this one!
PDave: What?
Lady: Ahhhh....
PDave: Mam, I did not want to impose my faith upon you. Besides, if you are a good Jehovah's Witness, you wouldn't want a Baptist preacher praying for you.

Lady: That's right, because your church is part of the Great Whore of Revelation. As she said the words, her mouth was so agape I feared she would swallow me...
PDave: Stunned. What?

The debate would have continued, but her foot was now tapping to the Bennie Goodman music playing over the intercom. She no longer knew that I was in the room. And besides, the Aide signaled it was time for a diaper change. I glanced toward the 93-year-old lady I had come to visit, and she was now asleep in her wheelchair.

Yep, I guess I won that debate. Pretty impressive, wouldn't you say?

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posted by: bipolarexpress (reply)
post date: 04.11.08 (12:25 pm)

apprently you won the one with doc savage too..lol run him plum off..(giggles)

how come Jws's arent in the bible when the other main religons (even paganism) are?? makes one think doesnt it...

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posted by: IntricateGirl (reply)
post date: 04.11.08 (12:26 pm)

I was chuckling, right up until the end. Now I feel kinda of sad for her. She seems so consumed with superiority and disdain that I bet she's missing out on a lot. Her decision, of course, but it still makes me sad.

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posted by: mimi (reply)
post date: 04.11.08 (12:39 pm)

and to think that she is studying for her "final exam"!!! we all need to pray for her...or not! good for you, pdave, you are an awesome debater! LOLOL!!
xoxox

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posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 04.11.08 (12:43 pm)

Reply to: bipolarexpress
I don't think I've run off Doc Savage. Most like he has a bit of ADD, and tired of interchange with folks like myself, and moved on to other entertainment. I like for those like him to be part of t-Blog. The scripture says "...iron sharpens iron". I learn things and grow and I interact with smart people like Doc. Of course, he did irritate me more than a bit by his propensity to change positions at the drop of a hat. It's patently unfair!

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posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 04.11.08 (12:46 pm)

Reply to: IntricateGirl
I hope I've communicated that she is a nursing home patient with dementia. Still, you have a good point. A lot of elderly people are fixated with opinions and social views that, now, cannot be changed. Minds and wills have deteriorated past the point where change is possible. That is very sad.

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posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 04.11.08 (12:48 pm)

Reply to: mimi
I am careful to choose my opponents! I prefer third graders and those with limited mental facilities. You do not qualify, not yet.

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posted by: bipolarexpress (reply)
post date: 04.11.08 (12:53 pm)

Reply to: PastorDave

I was teasing you..

(Jws's stands for Jehovah's Witnesses)

I have one of their Bibles. It's a modern version but they leave a lot out of it. I have a little old lady that comes around monthly and prays for me and to me. They are a stub born bunch..she just ignores my umm necklace..

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posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 04.11.08 (1:00 pm)

Reply to: bipolarexpress
I know you were kidding! JW's are a persistent bunch. They've adopted the Protestant zeal for evangelism, and put it on steroids. I don't think such persistent outreach is so much because of a great love for outsiders, as it is a desire to earn ones' way to heaven by being good enough and working hard enough.

Hey, if I came across you while making my rounds in the community, I'd probably put you on the "hit list" and try to return for more visits!

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posted by: bipolarexpress (reply)
post date: 04.11.08 (1:16 pm)

Reply to: PastorDave

She is the only one I haven't run off. The first thing out of everyone else's mouth is that I'm going to hell.

How can I go some where that I don't believe in.

I am respectful and listen to what they have to say to a point... when they start talking down to me and trying to bully me.. then I run them off.

You would be interesting, I'd probably even attend one of your services...

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posted by: bawdy (reply)
post date: 04.11.08 (1:36 pm)

I'm sure she feels equally victorious. heh

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posted by: squirrelzone (reply)
post date: 04.11.08 (2:16 pm)

Was it divine intervention that Benny Goodman started playing at that moment? Because, I think she might of took you even with your vast and greater experiences.

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posted by: kurtmaddox (reply)
post date: 04.12.08 (3:41 pm)

That's pretty impressive for a representative of The Great Whore of Revelation! lol! I guess your next podcast will be, "Pastor Dave Takes On Mormon Gang at Rest Home!" Ha! Ha!

Too funny... I really laughed out loud at your little adventure. Maybe because as a former Minister, I've done my share of hospital and retirement home tours of duty. Any "preacher" that's done that work, knows of what you speak ;-)

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posted by: Lost (reply)
post date: 04.12.08 (7:38 pm)

I admire you on your debating skills but as a pastor (if you are one) and as a human being, isnt it our chief duty to enlighten instead of ridicule, people who may be too set in their ways to want to conider other possibilities?
Isnt it true that in matters of faith either both debators win or both lose?
Isnt "ego" an evil that stands against the core teachings of master Jesus?

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posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 04.12.08 (7:52 pm)

Reply to: Lost
Are you sure you have read the post? The intent is not to elevate myself, but to emphasize how inappropriate it is to debate religion with an old lady in a Nursing Home! Someone more like Jesus than myself would not engage in such a foolhardy exercise.

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posted by: Lost (reply)
post date: 04.12.08 (8:15 pm)

Reply to: PastorDave
I have read and understood the post, do not get me wrong, i am not here to judge or engage you in another debate. I wouldnt know how master Jesus would have gone about this but i am sure he would have treated this matter with a different kind of compassion.
As to this being a debate taking place in a nursing home, i know that elderly people would use any opportunity to start up a conversation with someone, even only if to remind themselves that they are still alive and capable of contributing their 2 cents in any subject.
may be it was a companion she needed and not a debate partner.
anyway,i wish you a clear river of peace and success.

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posted by: surrogate (reply)
post date: 04.14.08 (5:26 pm)

I think Master Jesus (I've never heard that particular term) would be happy enough Dave - or anyone else was visiting the nursing home. I don't think he'd have worried too much about the debate one way or the other - other than to deflect it and talk about something important to whomever was being visited. No worries. -In fact he just called me and told me I had it exactly right this time.

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posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 04.14.08 (6:55 pm)

Reply to: Lost
Just to reiterate, with this post I am trying to say- in my faulty literate way- that my behavior with this lady was not very nice. I'm not bragging about this encounter, but pointing out how very improper I behaved. The lady needed to be loved, and her words simply overlooked. Have I really done that poor of a job with communicating my intent?

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posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 04.14.08 (7:03 pm)

Reply to: kurtmaddox
Thank you! Indeed, I'm beginning a new ministry of theological/religious debate. It will be called God's Shock Therapy: Applying The Truth To The Temporal Lobes Of The Heathen Heart. We intend to overwhelm those who dare to debate with the lightning bolts of the Truth. We'll ply our trade at various venues: Nursing Homes, Mental Institutions, and of course the citizens of Skid Row. Also, on Tuesdays we'll gather in the living room of my home, awaiting the unsuspecting Jehovah's Witness or Mormon who might ring the doorbell. What do you think- would you like to be part of this worthy ministry?

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posted by: kurtmaddox (reply)
post date: 04.14.08 (8:17 pm)

Reply to: PastorDave

If anyone didn't see that you were being self-depricating, that'd be their problem -- very funny story! lol!

Oh, and yes, count me for anything that has to do with "Shock Therapy" and "Jehovah's Witnesses" :-)

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posted by: Lost (reply)
post date: 04.15.08 (2:37 pm)

Reply to: surrogate
"Master Jesus" is a term that I would use to convey my utmost respect and adoration for a teacher whose teachings on humanity and humility are the best examples of what we are capable of becoming only if we "love" not Just a "God" that is supposedly up there watching us but the "God" within us all.
"Master Jesus" alongside so many other Masters, are pictures of a possible heaven that we can create around us, once we refuse to be bound to all those that we choose to create a hell for ourselves.

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posted by: Lost (reply)
post date: 04.15.08 (2:38 pm)

Reply to: PastorDave
I thank you and wish you peace.

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posted by: chazer16xyz (reply)
post date: 04.17.08 (9:23 pm)

haha, the lady was wrong in saying that her religion is the only religious group that welcomes people of all color. The Catholic Church does.
BTW I hope you've posted this not to make ur reader laugh at the lady. We need to respect each other's religion. i am not saying you didn't in fact i think it's obvious that you have respected her religion... Good day.. God Bless.

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posted by: Funkadelichika (reply)
post date: 04.19.08 (10:14 pm)

You have posted a few times since this post so you may not reply to this comment but I hope you do... In this post I do not find it particularly clear exactly what you are saying... It seems a few people agree. I hope in the future with issues that seem to be serious you don't post with such lightheartedness or reconsider which situations warrent it and which don't. Or at the end of your post give a longer explaination about your original actions.

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posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 04.22.08 (7:08 am)

Reply to: chazer16xyz
Well, I do not have a whole lot of respect for the Jehovah's Witness religion. Of course I respect any person's right to believe and follow God as his conscience best dictates. JW's are an aberration of historical and Biblical Christianity who prey upon other Christian traditions, and particularly upon those ignorant and weak about what they believe. And, having said that, I do realize this little lady at the nursing home is at a stage of life where debate does not profit. She needs to be treated with kindness and love. I did not treat her very well.

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posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 04.22.08 (7:10 am)

Reply to: Funkadelichika
I had no idea that readers would so miss out on the intent of this post. It's not about debate. It's not about ridiculing this sad little lady. It is about how very inappropriate was my behavior. I think, if I have to go into detail to explain it in the post, then I've done a very poor job of writing.

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