A Troublesome Conversation With Some Little Old Ladies
I want to pass along just a bit of stream-of-consciousness thought about a troublesome incident from earlier this day. And I will forewarn you that I have not thoroughly thought through this matter nor very carefully chosen the use of my words, matters I usually try to address before crafting a post. So what follows is simply what is on my mind at this moment, and surely subject to growth and change.
The conversation was with about a dozen elderly ladies with whom I usually enjoy interaction. I have considered them all to be godly persons, in that they have shown to me spiritual discipline and Christian character over the course of several years. In the line of bantering while having lunch together, I casually told them I had just finished reading Dreams Of My Father by Barack Obama. And I commented that, whatever your take on his politics, one would surely agree that he is a smart man and an excellent communicator. The response was uncomfortable silence. I heard a lady muttering to no one in particular that we will just see how smart he is when he loses the next election. A gentleman standing over to the side said Obama was a terrible president, and that he will surely lose in 2012. And I could clearly sense by the uncomfortable coldness of everyone present that no one was ready to acknowledge my gentle challenge that our President at least deserves a begrudging respect. When one asked me later what I could possibly see as good in this man, I responded just briefly about how he arose from a quite difficult background to the highest office in the land. She was not buying my argument.
Here’s my beef: I am not a political supporter of President Obama, something which anyone who even briefly knows me would acknowledge. But even as a political conservative, it is not hard or even unreasonable to agree that he has written a compelling book and he deserves respect for becoming President against such staggering odds. The ladies with whom I spoke are mostly widows of husbands who worked union jobs, and they now have comfortable lives supported by union pensions. They are Dixie-crats; they may be conservative in their social and religious views, but they have been faithful to vote Democrat throughout their lives. And I am convinced Barack Obama is no more liberal than Bill Clinton, or certainly John Kerry. Yet they seemed to have no problem voting for those men.
So, what’s the difference? It is pretty obvious to me, and I do not like the conclusion.
10.14.09 (3:59 pm) [
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posted by:
inkspector (
reply)
post date:
10.14.09 (1:15 pm)
Just how old are these "Dixie-crat" ladies (never heard that term before!)? Do you think it could be generational also?
posted by:
fractalmom (
reply)
post date:
10.14.09 (4:15 pm)
bigotry dies hard. shame. I don't like Obama, but would have gladly, willingly, even proudly voted for Alan Keyes.
Shame.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
10.14.09 (4:29 pm)
Um... With all due respect, (don't you love that phrase?), duh.
I remember you implying time and time again that there are just a few bigots around these days, and that, it's just the policies the man supports that people disagree with. Well, I KNOW that's not true here in Michigan, where racists remain a HUGE minority, and where, I'm quite sure, even if the guy was conservative enough to meet your standards and a Republican, hundreds of thousands of voters would have either stayed away from the polls, or, even if they were normally Republicans themselves, would have voted Democrat, just to keep a dark skinned person from holding the office. Frankly, it's why I was so happily surprised he made it through the general. You'd have a hard time convincing me it's much different in Georgia, especially when you're talking about a group of elderly women who've lived comfortably with their prejudice for six or eight decades.
posted by:
surrogate (
reply)
post date:
10.14.09 (4:36 pm)
By the way, are all these women white?
posted by:
tampi (
reply)
post date:
10.14.09 (6:07 pm)
having traveled a bit racism in the west and cast ism will take many more years to dissappear
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
10.14.09 (7:08 pm)
Reply to: inkspector
The Dixiecrats, proper, were the old Strom Thurmond party of the 1940's who split from the Democrats. They were strong for states rights and for segregation. I guess, to be proper, I should refer to the political mindset of Southern political conservatives who vote for Democrat candidates as "Yellow Dog Democrats", folks who are so strongly identified as Democrats even though logic would seem to say otherwise. There are still a lot of such folks around. They express views that line up well with Republicans, but they would never vote for a Republican.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
10.14.09 (7:11 pm)
Reply to: fractalmom
I would vote in support of Michael Steele, Condoleeza Rice, or Herman Cain. Give me a true conservative able to communicate effectively, and I'll vote for him/her. Color is not the issue.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
10.14.09 (7:13 pm)
Reply to: tampi
Cast-ism, I guess you refer to India? Racism will be around as long as there is a fallen humanity. It is rooted in sin, in my opinion.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
10.14.09 (7:27 pm)
Reply to: surrogate
It indeed bothers me quite a bit to encounter such obvious fault in people whom I otherwise like. I guess I've known it was there, always just a little beneath the surface. We had a difficult time approving the use of one of our buildings by a Korean congregation, with the opposition mainly coming from this age group. They offered several quasi-reasons for opposition, but it was obvious they simply disliked the color/culture of the users. Thankfully, the vast majority of the church voted to approve, and it has proven to be a good situation. I have a hard time reconciling racial prejudice with Christ's demand that we love others. The two are absolutely incompatible, no matter what kind of twisted logic may be offered. Usually, as I have seen it, these kinds of people stay quiet unless they manage to get together in a pack. Then they may smile and speak softly, but their fangs do come out!
I do not think these old ladies are mean. They came of age at a time when Jim Crow laws were accepted. Their generation was forced, by federal law, to integrate. But the law cannot change a person's heart. So, folks their age largely went underground with their prejudice. And, as many of us know quite well, the church is the last place for them to be comfortable with their old ways- old-time religion, culture, and racial prejudice. Such stuff I'm rather sure upsets the stomach of God.
posted by:
inkspector (
reply)
post date:
10.15.09 (7:32 am)
Thanks PD for the education -- I was born a Yankee and lived in Yankee country all my life.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
10.15.09 (8:43 am)
Reply to: inkspector
It's just a bit of quirky and embarassing Southern history.
posted by:
SupremeAnna (
reply)
post date:
10.15.09 (10:12 am)
It disheartens to think this kind of thought still exists in the world, but I know how set in their ways people (like me) can get. It takes a long time for change to come about, usually with kicking and screaming, as history has shown.
posted by:
barnabus1 (
reply)
post date:
10.15.09 (11:37 am)
I really don't see it as a race issue! His outright lying are what really gets my goat!! He is a pathological liar, and will lie even if the truth fits better...see the recent flip flop, he had said he wants to keep the right to arrest and hold indefinitely without charge, then seeing Homeland security up for review in Dec. said, but I wouldn't use it!! No matter what he says, it's a lie!!! The platform he ran on was a lie...he proved that! Look at those he has put inpositions of power!! The Head of Schools, belongs to NAMBLS, a man who said sex with 18 month old babies "gives them pleasure" HEAD of out SCHOOLS!!!!
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
10.15.09 (12:41 pm)
Reply to: barnabus1
You make reference to Kevin Jennings, Safe Schools Czar, appointed by Obama. I understand he is a strong advocate of homosexuality, that he gave some bad advice to a 15-year-old several years ago, and that he spoke well of a man who was said some very controversial things about homosexual relations with teenage boys. And if these matters are true, they seem to be to be reasons to question the wisdom of this man's appointment.
But, this has little to do with my post. I'll bet you none of these senior citizens know one iota about Kevin Jennings or the position of School Czar. Their opposition is of a more simple nature, though just as culpable.
Now, please give me a reliable source for the statement by Jennings concerning 18-month-old babies.
I feel a bit peculiar here, trying to defend President Obama. I didn't vote for him and think he is taking our country in the wrong direction in so many ways. But I don't say he is "a pathological liar". He has a political agenda, and very left-wing in his directions. I don't think the man is intentionally deceptive. One thing that bothers me immensely is that, when campaigning, he was so very open and honest about his liberal intentions- and the people of our nation still elected him! So America got what it wanted.
I think when you come across so filled with animosity toward the man, you lose most of your audience. Just my opinion!
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
10.15.09 (12:43 pm)
Reply to: SupremeAnna
And, let's be honest, for some change to come about you have to first see a lot of funerals.
posted by:
tampi (
reply)
post date:
10.15.09 (4:28 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
isn't it sad to see after all the progress we have made in all fields ,be it science or technology certain ideas just refuse to go away
posted by:
LadyG (
reply)
post date:
10.23.09 (8:41 pm)
Racism still rears it's ugly head.
I am not ashamed to say that I voted for Obama.
posted by:
L. Mock (
reply)
post date:
11.03.09 (3:32 pm)
I generally call it like I see it: He's the only black candidate we've ever had the privilege to vote for, and racism is clearly the problem. I believe he's becoming a fine President and that he WILL be reelected in 2012. How terribly sad for these ladies and all those who would hate a person because of his or her race.
posted by:
PastorDave (
reply)
post date:
11.04.09 (5:29 am)
Reply to: L. Mock
In my opinion, "hate" is too strong a word for the attitude of these persons. Cultural prejudice, hardened by time and age, creeps into most of us. I think we will see it from a different direction as the run-off election for mayor of Atlanta plays out. It is awfully hard, and almost impossible, to change deep seated patterns of thought- even when they are irrational at the core.
